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Always sad to see a proper old fashioned club like Dale suffering, look at their recent seasons trajectory and we are following pretty closely I'm afraid.https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65088466
We were miles away from average attendances of 13-14k in the championship
Unfortunately , I'm one of those who am wrong in your eyes."Doncaster have under achieved for the majority of its footballing history.This club has the potential to be a sustainable Championship football club with ave attendances of 13 / 14.000Only JR has seen the potential and had the ambition to make it happen since the heady days of late 1940’s 50’sUnfortunately he did not have enough money to sustain it and TB/DB were not prepared to invest the sums required to keep us in tier 2"It's an irony that you say in that paragraph that it became unsustainable for JR. Despite all of his vision and effort to get us there, the attendances were dropping after the novelty and excitement of the journey that got us to the Championship. He said himself on many occasions 'I just wish the Doncaster public would come out and support us" He also said if you . want to keep the quality of players, you're going to have to pay for it. You can't expect the owners to keep putting in six figures sums each season".We debated with him at the time, increasing ticket prices wasn't the right way to go but that's another story.Of course, there's nothing wrong with ambition and generating the excitement that goes with it but it needs to be realisti and sustainable. We know the Donny public have been 'fickle' and that goes back decades. You only have to look at the fluctuation in attendances through the fifties and the more lean years through the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s with very few successes along the way. Just my opinion but historically, I think generally, Barnsley fans seem to stick together in difficult times better than we have. Of course there's potential. It already exists and we hope sooner or later we see better times it doesn't really matter about the destination sometimes, it's how we get there.
Quote We were miles away from average attendances of 13-14k in the championshipWe were not that far away, but we certainly are now!
Quote from: DonnyBazR0ver on March 28, 2023, 11:18:22 amUnfortunately , I'm one of those who am wrong in your eyes."Doncaster have under achieved for the majority of its footballing history.This club has the potential to be a sustainable Championship football club with ave attendances of 13 / 14.000Only JR has seen the potential and had the ambition to make it happen since the heady days of late 1940’s 50’sUnfortunately he did not have enough money to sustain it and TB/DB were not prepared to invest the sums required to keep us in tier 2"It's an irony that you say in that paragraph that it became unsustainable for JR. Despite all of his vision and effort to get us there, the attendances were dropping after the novelty and excitement of the journey that got us to the Championship. He said himself on many occasions 'I just wish the Doncaster public would come out and support us" He also said if you . want to keep the quality of players, you're going to have to pay for it. You can't expect the owners to keep putting in six figures sums each season".We debated with him at the time, increasing ticket prices wasn't the right way to go but that's another story.Of course, there's nothing wrong with ambition and generating the excitement that goes with it but it needs to be realisti and sustainable. We know the Donny public have been 'fickle' and that goes back decades. You only have to look at the fluctuation in attendances through the fifties and the more lean years through the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s with very few successes along the way. Just my opinion but historically, I think generally, Barnsley fans seem to stick together in difficult times better than we have. Of course there's potential. It already exists and we hope sooner or later we see better times it doesn't really matter about the destination sometimes, it's how we get there.Don’t forget Barnsley reached the Premier League in 1998/99 think it was. Their attendances went up to 18/20.000 & the that made a massive difference to them and their support base has been increased due to that. I can remember Barnsley averaging less than 4.000 gates at one time before their resurgence in the 1980’sNow DBR I have the utmost respect for you. Your one of the most sensible level headed posters on this forum so don’t please take this personally. You say you are one of those that disagree with me ( and I am sure there will be many ) and you’re all entitled to your opinion if course. But there lies the problem. There seems to be an inferiority complex in Doncaster by so many of its inhabitants. ( Not just Football related ) It is a can’t do attitude that prevails in Doncaster, not a we can attitude. We are just little old Donny, just a little old pub team batting above its weight attitude. Well believe me we are batting well below our weight right now. That attitude is so un inspiring and negative. The past is history it’s not the future. But the past has proved that this club can compete in the 2nd tier of English football. The club did it in the 30’s and again for a 9 yr spell from late 40’s to 57/58 and then more recently in the the last 15 years for a total of 5 seasons 4+1 Yes JR put out a war cry for more support of course he did. He was brilliant at selling the club to the Doncaster public. Just look at the difference now. David Blunt is our Chairman and we hear absolutely nothing from him to promote the club. Siltch, nowt, even less than that. Now I know he isn’t JR and I am north asking him to be but he is so desperately dour and seems to have no empathy with the fans whatsoever. JR didn’t have the funds to invest into the team in 2010 which was needed to build on the 1st 2 seasons mid table finishes in the Championship. Attendances fell as results declined that was inevitable.If Funds had been made available maybe we could have held on to players the ilk of Mills, Shackell, Wellens & Sharp. If we had stayed in the 2nd tier then the money from the EFL & Sky and the increased revenue from commercial activities etc would have given the club a serious chance of establishing themselves at that level long term.Please don’t tell me it can’t be done again and done better next time. Of course it can. It’s all about having ambition, belief and a plan to achieve. It’s about a “we can do” attitude not a “we can’t do” attitude which seems to be the one that prevails around the Club at present. With ref to the board it seems to be a “we do not want to do anymore” attitude right now.Millwall, Luton and Even Rotherham are not doing too badly are they. The first 2 have really established themselves in the 2nd tier. Millwall get gates of 13/14000 when in the top 7 less & only 11/12.000 when not doing as well.Luton only get 10.000 gates ( ground only holds that no ) neither club have spent large sums by 2nd tier standards to achieve their current status. Rotherham doing so much better than us ( under statement ) Why? Ambition. A we can achieve attitude from Stewart their owner.
Unfortunately , I'm one of those who am wrong in your eyes."Doncaster have under achieved for the majority of its footballing history.This club has the potential to be a sustainable Championship football club with ave attendances of 13 / 14.000Only JR has seen the potential and had the ambition to make it happen since the heady days of late 1940’s 50’sUnfortunately he did not have enough money to sustain it and TB/DB were not prepared to invest the sums required to keep us in tier 2"It's an irony that you say in that paragraph that it became unsustainable for JR. Despite all of his vision and effort to get us there, the attendances were dropping after the novelty and excitement of the journey that got us to the Championship. He said himself on many occasions 'I just wish the Doncaster public would come out and support us" He also said if you . want to keep the quality of players, you're going to have to pay for it. You can't expect the owners to keep putting in six figures sums each season".We debated with him at the time, increasing ticket prices wasn't the right way to go but that's another story.Of course, there's nothing wrong with ambition and generating the excitement that goes with it but it needs to be realisti and sustainable. We know the Donny public have been 'fickle' and that goes back decades. You only have to look at the fluctuation in attendances through the fifties and the more lean years through the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s with very few successes along the way. Just my opinion but historically, I think generally, Barnsley fans seem to stick together in difficult times better than we have. Of course there's potential. It already exists and we hope sooner or later we see better times it doesn't really matter about the destination sometimes, it's how we get there.
This board have always only wanted to provide a league 2 side for the city…….no matter what has been saidWe have been fobbed off since big John left and as a city we deserve betterThe team plays with the same boring enthusiasm as the board,But I still watch…whose the idiot
Quote from: Alan Southstand on March 28, 2023, 03:00:56 pmQuote We were miles away from average attendances of 13-14k in the championshipWe were not that far away, but we certainly are now!We were averaging 8-9-10k in the championship and that’s with much bigger away crowds. What we have now is irrelevant to the arguement, Point is we can never be a championship club without someone blowing a load of money on us and never expecting any of it back
Another thing to consider is sponsorship opportunities.I think it is fair to say that potential sponsors are more likely to come forward to associate themselves with a winning, exciting team at the top end of L1 or doing well in the Championship.An investment to get us into such a position could be money well spent as the sponsorship gain would add to our sustainability.
Quote from: Butchers Red on March 28, 2023, 07:14:38 amAlways sad to see a proper old fashioned club like Dale suffering, look at their recent seasons trajectory and we are following pretty closely I'm afraid.https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65088466now can we please sack Bentley Bullet from the P & O Manager
Quote from: dickos1 on March 28, 2023, 03:52:17 pmQuote from: Alan Southstand on March 28, 2023, 03:00:56 pmQuote We were miles away from average attendances of 13-14k in the championshipWe were not that far away, but we certainly are now!We were averaging 8-9-10k in the championship and that’s with much bigger away crowds. What we have now is irrelevant to the arguement, Point is we can never be a championship club without someone blowing a load of money on us and never expecting any of it backDickos we averaged 11.940 in 2008/09 season. In the season we were relegated the average was 9.300 which was the experiment season. The two in between seasons were just under 11.000 and around 10.000The point is the potential is there in this City to grow the support base to fill our current stadium.If we averaged 2.000 away fans in the 2nd tier we would need 13.000 home fans. Don’t tell me a city with a Met population of 309.000 can’t attract that no to watch us play in the 2nd tier. It’s about marketing is’nt it. Pro active marketing. Something this club is not great at and even in JR’s era could have been better. JR himself was the clubs most effective publicity machine. He made sure the club was on the map through his constant media appearances. Don’t forget dickos our gates went from 7.000 to 12.000 overnight when we were promoted in 2008Yes more away fans but that was a significant increase. If we had got the funding in 2010 to take us to the higher echelons of the 2nd tier and we were not far off having a top 6 team in 2009, then we would have built our fan base further. Far too many people with this little Donny attitude. Look what Burnley have achieved. A town with 85.000 people and catchment area of no ,ore than 125.000Before the 1960’s they were no where. They developed a fantastic youth policy had a brilliant scouting network, particularly in the North East. The rest is history. They have achieved something that in the modern era should not really be possible. But they have.
Quote from: Campsall rover on March 28, 2023, 08:11:16 pmQuote from: dickos1 on March 28, 2023, 03:52:17 pmQuote from: Alan Southstand on March 28, 2023, 03:00:56 pmQuote We were miles away from average attendances of 13-14k in the championshipWe were not that far away, but we certainly are now!We were averaging 8-9-10k in the championship and that’s with much bigger away crowds. What we have now is irrelevant to the arguement, Point is we can never be a championship club without someone blowing a load of money on us and never expecting any of it backDickos we averaged 11.940 in 2008/09 season. In the season we were relegated the average was 9.300 which was the experiment season. The two in between seasons were just under 11.000 and around 10.000The point is the potential is there in this City to grow the support base to fill our current stadium.If we averaged 2.000 away fans in the 2nd tier we would need 13.000 home fans. Don’t tell me a city with a Met population of 309.000 can’t attract that no to watch us play in the 2nd tier. It’s about marketing is’nt it. Pro active marketing. Something this club is not great at and even in JR’s era could have been better. JR himself was the clubs most effective publicity machine. He made sure the club was on the map through his constant media appearances. Don’t forget dickos our gates went from 7.000 to 12.000 overnight when we were promoted in 2008Yes more away fans but that was a significant increase. If we had got the funding in 2010 to take us to the higher echelons of the 2nd tier and we were not far off having a top 6 team in 2009, then we would have built our fan base further. Far too many people with this little Donny attitude. Look what Burnley have achieved. A town with 85.000 people and catchment area of no ,ore than 125.000Before the 1960’s they were no where. They developed a fantastic youth policy had a brilliant scouting network, particularly in the North East. The rest is history. They have achieved something that in the modern era should not really be possible. But they have. Yes so nowhere near the 13-14k mentioned. The met population is irrelevent, places like Scunthorpe are included in that. People in doncaster don’t follow the rovers it’s always been like it, even when we were around the playoffs in the championship we were only getting 6-7k home fans. We need big investment to get to the championship, and not many clubs our size make it.