Rotherham Utd

[steve@dcfd]

Stay in the Championship having beaten Middlesbrough 1.  0 they stopped the 6yr yo yo
Well done .

[scawsby steve]

A good, well run club; especially when you consider the size of the town.

A good chairman makes all the difference.

[Monkcaster_Rover]

Been watching footage on Twitter. Matt Taylor gave a rousing speech in the dressing room after the game and singled out Richard Wood for his professionalism. Could be hanging up his boots listening to that.

[Donny Exile in York]

If they can 'sustain' a top league one, fighting for championship retention place, then why can't we?! They are a clear example to all those who say the championship is a pipedream that a club our size has and can achieve alot more than our Board would have you believe and get used to, and what we could achieve.

[drfchound]

Tony Stewart reminds me a bit of the way JR used to rouse the fans and promote the club.
He is often in the news.

[grayx]

A good, well run club; especially when you consider the size of the town.

A good chairman makes all the difference.

Spot on… well done rotherham

[Chris Black come back]

Total wage and salary costs of £6.5m last season in League One, which would have been around double what we had.

[Grumps]

A good, well run club; especially when you consider the size of the town.

A good chairman makes all the difference.

Cheers Steve.  Genuinely appreciate the praise.  But, I do feel the need to comment on the "size of the town" remark.  Rotherham is a large town.  Very large.  Almost identical to that of Doncaster,  notwithstanding recent "city status".  Both our 'towns' dwarf Barnsley for example by way of population.  Our problem, with respects football, has never been the size of our town, moreover our proximity to Sheffield.  In any other geographical setting we're a city. 

Moving on ..... did someone on here say in the summer that our two teams would end up in the same division at the end of the season?  And this was based on nothing more than a 70 minute friendly on the hottest day on record? 

[Bentley Bullet]

I think Doncaster is quite a lot larger than Rotherham, and a bit larger than Sheffield for that matter.

https://southyorkshire.startprofile.com/content/media/Map/SCR/scr-map-600-colour.png

[Grumps]

You've fallen into the metropolitan borough trap. 

[roversdude]

Millers have done well especially after losing Warne

[Campsall rover]

A good, well run club; especially when you consider the size of the town.

A good chairman makes all the difference.

SS Rotherham has a MBC population of 255.000 it is not a small town.
Or maybe it is just a small town in the city of Doncaster.   

But seriously it is bigger than Middlesbrough, Blackburn, Ipswich & Barnsley just as examples they all have a better history than the Millers.

[NickDRFC]

A good, well run club; especially when you consider the size of the town.

A good chairman makes all the difference.

Cheers Steve.  Genuinely appreciate the praise.  But, I do feel the need to comment on the "size of the town" remark.  Rotherham is a large town.  Very large.  Almost identical to that of Doncaster,  notwithstanding recent "city status".  Both our 'towns' dwarf Barnsley for example by way of population.  Our problem, with respects football, has never been the size of our town, moreover our proximity to Sheffield.  In any other geographical setting we're a city. 

Moving on ..... did someone on here say in the summer that our two teams would end up in the same division at the end of the season?  And this was based on nothing more than a 70 minute friendly on the hottest day on record? 

Re your last point, I remember someone saying that you might end up with the lowest points total in the Championship. Remember thinking it was an odd thing to say after one pre-season game.

[Campsall rover]

A good, well run club; especially when you consider the size of the town.

A good chairman makes all the difference.

Cheers Steve.  Genuinely appreciate the praise.  But, I do feel the need to comment on the "size of the town" remark.  Rotherham is a large town.  Very large.  Almost identical to that of Doncaster,  notwithstanding recent "city status".  Both our 'towns' dwarf Barnsley for example by way of population.  Our problem, with respects football, has never been the size of our town, moreover our proximity to Sheffield.  In any other geographical setting we're a city. 

Moving on ..... did someone on here say in the summer that our two teams would end up in the same division at the end of the season?  And this was based on nothing more than a 70 minute friendly on the hottest day on record? 

Re your last point, I remember someone saying that you might end up with the lowest points total in the Championship. Remember thinking it was an odd thing to say after one pre-season game.

2011 census Doncaster 308.000 & Rotherham 265.000 so a difference of 43.000
Barnsley 245.000 so only 20.000 less than Rotherham but 63.000 less than Doncaster.

[Campsall rover]

There is no reason whatsoever that Doncaster Rotherham & Barnsley can’t compete in the 2nd tier based on their Populations and catchment.
The Clubs need to have ambitious owners and be well run.
Recruitment is key to any club being successful of course.

Ours has been a shambles compared to out two nearest rivals over the last few years.

The league table doesn’t lie does it.

[ridgewoodrover]

:I wonder percentage wise if we have more going elsewhere to get there football fix.
I’m betting that’s one league we’re top of unfortunately.

[Chris Black come back]

When people say ambitious owners, they basically mean owners willing to throw millions into the pot with no end horizon.

Each club has a revenue-generating potential. None of the clubs cited above is going to get 20,000 plus crowds in the Championship, which is pretty much what it would take to survive, all things being equal.

To bridge the gap between normal run-rate revenue and what it takes to compete, the options are either an ongoing owner subsidy of several millions each season, some unbelievably consistently successful recruitment and realisation policy, or hosting the world’s biggest car boot sale and pop concert venue.

Throwing millions into the pot to cover the gap between reality and fantasy is not sustainable. Adding a bit in now and again to try and generate long-term increase to the revenue stream is sensible. We did this with the new stadium, but as JR noted last week, we didn’t fill the Keepmoat even when we were flying in the Championship.

There is a cap on our ongoing revenue due largely to the inability to attract significant numbers of supporters on a consistent basis, in the way that clubs like Sunderland, Derby and Boro do, despite having arguably smaller or similar catchments.

[ForsolongaRover]

We’ve had this debate before. Fundamentally, people don’t base their affiliations to football teams on Government-defined administrative or political units like Metropolitan Boroughs. It is an emotional and cultural connection. In the old days, if you lived in an outlying village, it was where the local bus service would take you to do your shopping. It is also a fact that those on the edges of DMB could be closer to either Rotherham, Barnsley or Scunthorpe and so traditionally don’t see a connection to Doncaster.

Barnsley have had a much more successful team than Doncaster for the last 100 years or more and Rotherham have spent more time in the second tier than we have since WW2. And when you are young you support the team your dad took you to watch.

In the modern era, it is also a fact that there are lots of armchair fans of PL clubs. In other contexts we bemoan those who support Leeds United and it is a good deal easier to get there from Doncaster by car or train than from Rotherham. And you could make an argument that the least successful of the 3 will have lost more potential fans in that direction than most.

[TonySoprano]

A good, well run club; especially when you consider the size of the town.

A good chairman makes all the difference.

Cheers Steve.  Genuinely appreciate the praise.  But, I do feel the need to comment on the "size of the town" remark.  Rotherham is a large town.  Very large.  Almost identical to that of Doncaster,  notwithstanding recent "city status".  Both our 'towns' dwarf Barnsley for example by way of population.  Our problem, with respects football, has never been the size of our town, moreover our proximity to Sheffield.  In any other geographical setting we're a city. 

Moving on ..... did someone on here say in the summer that our two teams would end up in the same division at the end of the season?  And this was based on nothing more than a 70 minute friendly on the hottest day on record?

Sorry but historically and culturally Rotherham is insignificant compared to Doncaster.
Population is a factor, for city status but only 1 factor.

Put rotherham in Devon say, and it's still a town.
Put Doncaster in Devon, and it's a city for 250 years.

Oh and the city of Doncaster has a population of 308,000

[ForsolongaRover]

A good, well run club; especially when you consider the size of the town.

A good chairman makes all the difference.

Cheers Steve.  Genuinely appreciate the praise.  But, I do feel the need to comment on the "size of the town" remark.  Rotherham is a large town.  Very large.  Almost identical to that of Doncaster,  notwithstanding recent "city status".  Both our 'towns' dwarf Barnsley for example by way of population.  Our problem, with respects football, has never been the size of our town, moreover our proximity to Sheffield.  In any other geographical setting we're a city. 

Moving on ..... did someone on here say in the summer that our two teams would end up in the same division at the end of the season?  And this was based on nothing more than a 70 minute friendly on the hottest day on record?

Sorry but historically and culturally Rotherham is insignificant compared to Doncaster.
Population is a factor, for city status but only 1 factor.

Put rotherham in Devon say, and it's still a town.
Put Doncaster in Devon, and it's a city for 250 years.

Oh and the city of Doncaster has a population of 308,000

What exactly is the rationale for all this?

[Campsall rover]

Well I started it by saying Rotherham is not a small Town

It isn’t.

[Campsall rover]

When people say ambitious owners, they basically mean owners willing to throw millions into the pot with no end horizon.

Each club has a revenue-generating potential. None of the clubs cited above is going to get 20,000 plus crowds in the Championship, which is pretty much what it would take to survive, all things being equal.

To bridge the gap between normal run-rate revenue and what it takes to compete, the options are either an ongoing owner subsidy of several millions each season, some unbelievably consistently successful recruitment and realisation policy, or hosting the world’s biggest car boot sale and pop concert venue.

Throwing millions into the pot to cover the gap between reality and fantasy is not sustainable. Adding a bit in now and again to try and generate long-term increase to the revenue stream is sensible. We did this with the new stadium, but as JR noted last week, we didn’t fill the Keepmoat even when we were flying in the Championship.

There is a cap on our ongoing revenue due largely to the inability to attract significant numbers of supporters on a consistent basis, in the way that clubs like Sunderland, Derby and Boro do, despite having arguably smaller or similar catchments.

Preston, Millwall, Luton, Wigan, Blackpool, Huddersfield, QPR, Reading, Hull, Blackburn, Swansea,
Who have I missed, don’t get 20,000 gates
Very rare.

Some don’t Ave 15.000

You can survive on gates of 10.000
Look at Luton Town

[Donny Exile in York]

When people say ambitious owners, they basically mean owners willing to throw millions into the pot with no end horizon.

Each club has a revenue-generating potential. None of the clubs cited above is going to get 20,000 plus crowds in the Championship, which is pretty much what it would take to survive, all things being equal.

To bridge the gap between normal run-rate revenue and what it takes to compete, the options are either an ongoing owner subsidy of several millions each season, some unbelievably consistently successful recruitment and realisation policy, or hosting the world’s biggest car boot sale and pop concert venue.

Throwing millions into the pot to cover the gap between reality and fantasy is not sustainable. Adding a bit in now and again to try and generate long-term increase to the revenue stream is sensible. We did this with the new stadium, but as JR noted last week, we didn’t fill the Keepmoat even when we were flying in the Championship.

There is a cap on our ongoing revenue due largely to the inability to attract significant numbers of supporters on a consistent basis, in the way that clubs like Sunderland, Derby and Boro do, despite having arguably smaller or similar catchments.

Rotherham has 11-12k there yesterday for a huge game against Boro who would have brought a good away following also. If Tony Stewart can support Rotherham's good ambitions then we should be able to, the current regime or new investors in theory. People on here are so negative, despite the logic of our infrastructure, population of South Yorkshire's second city etc. Maybe a very good reason why we have apathy in the board room is the apathy from a number of the fans who accept being the regions poor relations. If Rotherham and one man band Stewart can show ambition then Rovers should be able to aswell.

[DonnyOsmond]

Well I started it by saying Rotherham is not a small Town

It isn’t.

Small village in Sheffield isn't it?

[Chris Black come back]

When people say ambitious owners, they basically mean owners willing to throw millions into the pot with no end horizon.

Each club has a revenue-generating potential. None of the clubs cited above is going to get 20,000 plus crowds in the Championship, which is pretty much what it would take to survive, all things being equal.

To bridge the gap between normal run-rate revenue and what it takes to compete, the options are either an ongoing owner subsidy of several millions each season, some unbelievably consistently successful recruitment and realisation policy, or hosting the world’s biggest car boot sale and pop concert venue.

Throwing millions into the pot to cover the gap between reality and fantasy is not sustainable. Adding a bit in now and again to try and generate long-term increase to the revenue stream is sensible. We did this with the new stadium, but as JR noted last week, we didn’t fill the Keepmoat even when we were flying in the Championship.

There is a cap on our ongoing revenue due largely to the inability to attract significant numbers of supporters on a consistent basis, in the way that clubs like Sunderland, Derby and Boro do, despite having arguably smaller or similar catchments.

Preston, Millwall, Luton, Wigan, Blackpool, Huddersfield, QPR, Reading, Hull, Blackburn, Swansea,
Who have I missed, don’t get 20,000 gates
Very rare.

Some don’t Ave 15.000

You can survive on gates of 10.000
Look at Luton Town

This ignores three points.

First, my original point was about surviving in the Championship absent of an owner willing to throw in millions each year. For most if not all of those, they will be facing a huge shortfall each year that is being plugged by the owner or by debt being loaded on to the club. It is a huge Ponzi scheme in the hope they can get into the EPL. So long as there are people willing to plug that gap then these clubs will continue to survive at this level. That’s not my point though.

Second, 20,000 attendances don’t guarantee sustainability. It was patently a rule of thumb, but that aside, you’ve included a number of clubs there with 18k and 19k average gates.

Third, almost all of those clubs cited have been through financial collapse or explosion in recent years. In the specific case of Rotherham, they’ve not managed to last more than a single session in the Championship in their last few visits, which proves the difficulty of a modestly supported club getting in there.

[Campsall rover]

When people say ambitious owners, they basically mean owners willing to throw millions into the pot with no end horizon.

Each club has a revenue-generating potential. None of the clubs cited above is going to get 20,000 plus crowds in the Championship, which is pretty much what it would take to survive, all things being equal.

To bridge the gap between normal run-rate revenue and what it takes to compete, the options are either an ongoing owner subsidy of several millions each season, some unbelievably consistently successful recruitment and realisation policy, or hosting the world’s biggest car boot sale and pop concert venue.

Throwing millions into the pot to cover the gap between reality and fantasy is not sustainable. Adding a bit in now and again to try and generate long-term increase to the revenue stream is sensible. We did this with the new stadium, but as JR noted last week, we didn’t fill the Keepmoat even when we were flying in the Championship.

There is a cap on our ongoing revenue due largely to the inability to attract significant numbers of supporters on a consistent basis, in the way that clubs like Sunderland, Derby and Boro do, despite having arguably smaller or similar catchments.

Rotherham has 11-12k there yesterday for a huge game against Boro who would have brought a good away following also. If Tony Stewart can support Rotherham's good ambitions then we should be able to, the current regime or new investors in theory. People on here are so negative, despite the logic of our infrastructure, population of South Yorkshire's second city etc. Maybe a very good reason why we have apathy in the board room is the apathy from a number of the fans who accept being the regions poor relations. If Rotherham and one man band Stewart can show ambition then Rovers should be able to aswell.

Well said.
I have been banging this drum for many a year.

The 2nd or 3rd best attitude that exists in Doncaster is why we are just that.

Crikey is there another JR out there somewhere who has a spare 20 million that he doesn’t need & doesn’t want a guarantee of getting it back.
Because that’s all we need to be a potentially an established Championship Club.
Double it and we could get to the Premier League. If we did that we could comfortably get 20.000 every week if the stadium was big enough.
Staying in the Premier League is another thing altogether but DRFC being an eatablished 2nd tier club IS Achievable if the ambition is there to achieve it.
Bramall could make it happen if he wanted but isn’t interested enough in Football

[Campsall rover]

Look at Burnley and what they achieve.
The Town has a population of 85.000 and a catchment of 130.000

They get gates of 20.000 in the Premier League and they have stayed there for consecutive seasons on several occasions.
They will have a wage bill that reflects the total income they get.
Not a Club that gambles with its future by spending way beyond its means.
If they did they would have gone the way of Bolton Wigan Derby etc by now.
Their secret is having great Managers and top notch recruitment.

They have no right whatsoever to be a Premier League club based on Population but they achieve it consistently and have done now for over 60 years. Yes a bit of a blip in the 80’s and a few other poor years but they are a fantastic example of a club that consistently over achieves.

We are a club which does the opposite. Consistently under achieves.

[ravenrover]

Aren't Burnley under a transfer embargo?

[Campsall rover]

Aren't Burnley under a transfer embargo?

Are they?
If so my above post is looking a bit silly.
But they have a fantastic history since the early 60’s that there is no argument.

[ravenrover]

The Clarets are currently under an embargo imposed by the EFL after submitting their annual accounts late, due to a change of auditor towards the end of last year. The Turf Moor side believe that their embargo will be lifted following the submission of their accounts, which is poised to be this month.14 Apr 2023

Still on place I understand