Rotherham Utd

[Donny Exile in York]

Aren't Burnley under a transfer embargo?

Are they?
If so my above post is looking a bit silly.


But they have a fantastic history since the early 60’s that there is no argument.

I think the point is still valid in that with a good manager they have bounced back at the first attempt and will recoup a huge windfall back in the premier league on a modest budget and modest attendances.

Burnley fantastic history.. not in the 80s and early 90s.. they nearly got relegated out of the football league on at least one occasion.

Look at the role reversal in Luton more recently.. out of the league now on the verge of the premier league.. too many doom merchants and willing to accept their lot as what is will always be in our fanbase. For every time some one refers to a Scarborough or a Darlington, there is a Luton or Bournemouth who themselves had real financial problems when Sean O Driscoll was manager only say 17 to 20 years ago...

[i_ateallthepies]

"Their secret is having great Managers and top notch recruitment"

Hi Campsall.  Have you spotted the flaw in that particular point, mate?

[colincramb]

A good, well run club; especially when you consider the size of the town.

A good chairman makes all the difference.

SS Rotherham has a MBC population of 255.000 it is not a small town.
Or maybe it is just a small town in the city of Doncaster.   

But seriously it is bigger than Middlesbrough, Blackburn, Ipswich & Barnsley just as examples they all have a better history than the Millers.

Rotherham isn’t bigger than Middlesbrough or Ipswich. Neither is Doncaster. Stop looking at MBC populations.

[dickos1]

This argument that crops up every year is a load of nonsense.
For starters the metropolitan borough population is irrelevant, plenty of folk living within this won’t have ever stepped foot into doncaster.
Secondly just because you live somewhere doesn’t mean you support that football club, we’re a very small football club who get very small gates, we’re currently getting much bigger gates than we did 30 years ago, even when we were in the championship playing great football we couldn’t sell out the keepmoat unless it was full of Leeds fans.

We just need to accept we’re a small club with a small fan base, not much of anything can change that

[Campsall rover]

This argument that crops up every year is a load of nonsense.
For starters the metropolitan borough population is irrelevant, plenty of folk living within this won’t have ever stepped foot into doncaster.
Secondly just because you live somewhere doesn’t mean you support that football club, we’re a very small football club who get very small gates, we’re currently getting much bigger gates than we did 30 years ago, even when we were in the championship playing great football we couldn’t sell out the keepmoat unless it was full of Leeds fans.

We just need to accept we’re a small club with a small fan base, not much of anything can change that

That’s the attitude that will keep this club where it is right now Dickos.
What a shocking attitude that is and it’s total boll.cks

[Campsall rover]

This argument that crops up every year is a load of nonsense.
For starters the metropolitan borough population is irrelevant, plenty of folk living within this won’t have ever stepped foot into doncaster.
Secondly just because you live somewhere doesn’t mean you support that football club, we’re a very small football club who get very small gates, we’re currently getting much bigger gates than we did 30 years ago, even when we were in the championship playing great football we couldn’t sell out the keepmoat unless it was full of Leeds fans.

We just need to accept we’re a small club with a small fan base, not much of anything can change that

So if Forest Green Rovers got to the Premier League and had a stadium with a 20.000 capacity do you think they would fill it?
They would be lucky to get 10.000 gates in fact they wouldn’t get that many.
The population of Stroud which is the nearest town is 30.000
You would need to get 10.000 fans from Bristol to come and support them.

So to say populations don’t matter is the biggest load of nonsense you have come out with yet.

I am telling you Dickos if JR had got the money Bramall has got we would have had a serious pop at the Prmier League and if we had got into top 6 in the Championship we would have sold out our stadium every week.
Please don’t tell me Doncaster can’t support a Championship football club. It is that negative attitude that is why we are in League 2.
Total acceptance of mediocrity.  No ambition to make it happen.  JR did have that ambition but didn’t have enough money to make it happen.
If we had spent another 5 million in 2010/11 we could still be in the Championship now having never left it.
That would be 16 consecutive seasons in the 2nd tier.
That 5 million would have been a brilliant investment.

[Chris Black come back]

There is no evidence we can fill our stadium regularly, given this didn’t happen in an absolute golden age of our club history (ground was new, side was flying, in second tier and playing amazing football, all at a time when regional rivals were largely in doldrums).

If we were top end Championship and even if the stadium was full, we would be in no way equipped to be there absent a colossal owner subsidy, given the matchday revenue even a 15,000 sell out would bring us.

Being realistic doesn’t mean lacking ambition. Kennedy didn’t say send a man to Mars, he said send him to the Moon. We can have a good and fulfilling life as a top end League One side that can venture into the Championship every several years potentially. We are in no way a sustainable multi-year Championship club, absent some huge and ongoing owner financial commitment.

Reminder also that we are currently bottom half of the lowest professional tier of the game and are 20 points from the play offs and 25 from automatic promotion.

[Campsall rover]

A good, well run club; especially when you consider the size of the town.

A good chairman makes all the difference.

SS Rotherham has a MBC population of 255.000 it is not a small town.
Or maybe it is just a small town in the city of Doncaster.   

But seriously it is bigger than Middlesbrough, Blackburn, Ipswich & Barnsley just as examples they all have a better history than the Millers.

Rotherham isn’t bigger than Middlesbrough or Ipswich. Neither is Doncaster. Stop looking at MBC populations.

Teeside is 370.00 so in that respect it it larger than Doncaster and Rotherham.
Ipswich is only about 140.000 but have a huge rural catchment area. All of Suffolk.
Same goes for Plymouth they have all of Cornwall and at least half of Devon as their catchment.

The point is if Rovers got sustained Championship football the fan base would steadily increase.
Look at how Barnsley’s fan base has increased due to sustained 2nd tier football. The season in the Premier league had a huge bearing on it but even when the dip to the 3rd tier they ave around 11/12.000

Barnsley we’re getting gates of 4.000 back in the 70’s before their resurgence in the 80’s

[Goole Rover]

Our gates decreased rapidly during the 69/70 season following a terrible post Christmas period which coincided with the sale of Harold Wilcockson to Sheffield Wednesday. The supporters had had enough and deserted in their droves never to fully recover. The club culture appeared to change with the scrimping of Hubert Bates. I recall that only Brighton had larger attendances than us in the late sixties.

[Campsall rover]

I am telling you if we were top 6 in the Championship we would get gates of 15.000
It just needs a marketing team doing their job properly.

Don’t forget we would have 3.000 away fans in the ground for about 10 of those 23 games and 2.000 for the majority of the others.

[Bentley Bullet]

I remember JR saying that if Rovers got to the Premiership he would give free season tickets to current season ticket holders. He could do that because the financial rewards of the Premiership would trivialise the season ticket funds.

[Chris Black come back]

I am telling you if we were top 6 in the Championship we would get gates of 15.000
It just needs a marketing team doing their job properly.

Don’t forget we would have 3.000 away fans in the ground for about 10 of those 23 games and 2.000 for the majority of the others.

You are missing the point again of how we would get to be top 6 in the Championship, given that even during an entirely unsustainable and likely unrepeatable golden age after 2008, we were never a top 6 side. Also a side like Rotherham United that is without delving into fantasy land effectively as good as we could hope to replicate, has consistently viewed the top half of the Championship as the dark side of the moon, there in theory but never visited by them.

The only way we become a top 6 side in the Championship is by colossal owner subsidy beyond anything we saw from 2008-2012. If that is being provided, it is by someone with more money than sense and having an extra 1,000 on the gate isn’t going to matter to them.

It’s a fantasy.

[Campsall rover]

There is no evidence we can fill our stadium regularly, given this didn’t happen in an absolute golden age of our club history (ground was new, side was flying, in second tier and playing amazing football, all at a time when regional rivals were largely in doldrums).

If we were top end Championship and even if the stadium was full, we would be in no way equipped to be there absent a colossal owner subsidy, given the matchday revenue even a 15,000 sell out would bring us.

Being realistic doesn’t mean lacking ambition. Kennedy didn’t say send a man to Mars, he said send him to the Moon. We can have a good and fulfilling life as a top end League One side that can venture into the Championship every several years potentially. We are in no way a sustainable multi-year Championship club, absent some huge and ongoing owner financial commitment.

Reminder also that we are currently bottom half of the lowest professional tier of the game and are 20 points from the play offs and 25 from automatic promotion.

We were down to gates of 2.500 in 2001/02 up to 3.700 when we got promoted the following season 2002/03
6 yrs later 2008/09 we had 12.940 ave gates in out 1st yr in the Championship. That is over 500% increase in 6 yrs. yes boosted by being in a new stadium.
2nd season 11.900

It takes time to build a fan base from a very low base point.
If we had invested in the team in our 3rd season in the Championship 2010/11 gates would not have dipped We just stayed up that season and gates were down to under 10.000. The relegation / experiment season ave gates were down to 9.300
We would have gone from that 11.900 in our 2nd season up to 13.000+ if we had invested in the squad at that time.
It would then have been an upward curve of gates if the team had been top half towards play offs over the following seasons.

It’s all about a good Manager and recruitment. You don’t need to spend 5 million every season on players.
Look at Luton, Millwall and even Rotherham ( they could stay up for 10/20 yrs with good management and recruitment )
Yes it is possible.
How many years have Millwall been in the Championship.

Come on folks let’s think big. No vision, no ambition, recipe for mediocrity at best.
If you think small that’s were we will stay. Guaranteed.

It’s a can do attitude we need in this City. Anything is possible if you believe it to be possible.
We have to make it happen though it doesn’t happen by accident.

1st step is to get Blunt out because with him at the helm we are going no where except into the abyss.

[Campsall rover]

I am telling you if we were top 6 in the Championship we would get gates of 15.000
It just needs a marketing team doing their job properly.

Don’t forget we would have 3.000 away fans in the ground for about 10 of those 23 games and 2.000 for the majority of the others.

You are missing the point again of how we would get to be top 6 in the Championship, given that even during an entirely unsustainable and likely unrepeatable golden age after 2008, we were never a top 6 side. Also a side like Rotherham United that is without delving into fantasy land effectively as good as we could hope to replicate, has consistently viewed the top half of the Championship as the dark side of the moon, there in theory but never visited by them.

The only way we become a top 6 side in the Championship is by colossal owner subsidy beyond anything we saw from 2008-2012. If that is being provided, it is by someone with more money than sense and having an extra 1,000 on the gate isn’t going to matter to them.

It’s a fantasy.

CBcb how did Luton Town get into the top 6 this season?
How much is their wage bill? How much have they spent on transfer fees? Both genuine questions as I don’t know.
But unless someone is bank rolling them to the tune of many millions I would suggest their wage bill is no more than 6/7 million.
If you know that to be incorrect then fine. I hold my hands up.
Same question ref Millwall if their wage bill is much more than that I would be surprised.

[Chris Black come back]

Luton Town had total wage costs of £18m last season and very likely will be in excess of that this season. Millwall was £22m last season. They are not doing this on a shoestring.

[Campsall rover]

Luton Town had total wage costs of £18m last season and very likely will be in excess of that this season. Millwall was £22m last season. They are not doing this on a shoestring.

If that’s fact and I am not doubting you then that is simply mad.
How can those clubs sustain that expenditure without going bust unless they actually make the promised land of the Premier League and all the gold that awaits them on the bottom of the proverbial rainbow.

Crazy isn’t it. Who do they have has owners then. Are they Middle Eastern Oil sheiks?
Money to burn or they are playing with fire and putting those clubs at serious risk.

[DonnyOsmond]

This argument that crops up every year is a load of nonsense.
For starters the metropolitan borough population is irrelevant, plenty of folk living within this won’t have ever stepped foot into doncaster.
Secondly just because you live somewhere doesn’t mean you support that football club, we’re a very small football club who get very small gates, we’re currently getting much bigger gates than we did 30 years ago, even when we were in the championship playing great football we couldn’t sell out the keepmoat unless it was full of Leeds fans.

We just need to accept we’re a small club with a small fan base, not much of anything can change that

What is this tosh.

Our metropolitan area is very important, it shows to a level the catchment area our club has, it shows the number of fans we should be targeting.

We don't need to accept small crowds at all, success brings bigger crowds, we  were averaging nearly 12,000 15 year ago when we were in the Championship, now we're at 6,000 at our lowest point in 20 years. You don't need to be in MENSA to understand that Dickos.

[pib]

This argument that crops up every year is a load of nonsense.
For starters the metropolitan borough population is irrelevant, plenty of folk living within this won’t have ever stepped foot into doncaster.
Secondly just because you live somewhere doesn’t mean you support that football club, we’re a very small football club who get very small gates, we’re currently getting much bigger gates than we did 30 years ago, even when we were in the championship playing great football we couldn’t sell out the keepmoat unless it was full of Leeds fans.

We just need to accept we’re a small club with a small fan base, not much of anything can change that

What is this tosh.

Our metropolitan area is very important, it shows to a level the catchment area our club has, it shows the number of fans we should be targeting.

We don't need to accept small crowds at all, success brings bigger crowds, we  were averaging nearly 12,000 15 year ago when we were in the Championship, now we're at 6,000 at our lowest point in 20 years. You don't need to be in MENSA to understand that Dickos.

I agree, I don't understand all this " you can't count the metropolitan borough" stuff. I have never lived in "inner" city/town Doncaster, and before moving away had always lived in the wider borough, but I've always considered myself as being from Doncaster and always considered Rovers being my local team. If you're discounting the Metropolitan area, you're excluding Hatfield, Thorne and other such small peripheral towns, which are all very much Doncaster.

[Donny Exile in York]

This argument that crops up every year is a load of nonsense.
For starters the metropolitan borough population is irrelevant, plenty of folk living within this won’t have ever stepped foot into doncaster.
Secondly just because you live somewhere doesn’t mean you support that football club, we’re a very small football club who get very small gates, we’re currently getting much bigger gates than we did 30 years ago, even when we were in the championship playing great football we couldn’t sell out the keepmoat unless it was full of Leeds fans.

We just need to accept we’re a small club with a small fan base, not much of anything can change that

That’s the attitude that will keep this club where it is right now Dickos.
What a shocking attitude that is and it’s total boll.cks

Its called a small town mentality Campsall.. unfortunately Donny is littered with such losers mentalities.

Have Rotherham sold out every week a smaller 12k stadium? Of course not but they have just stayed up in the Championship.  Never heard so.much negative piffle in my life as on here sometimes. And it is typically from the happy clappers don't disturb the status quo, accept your lot, we could do a Darlington brigade, that's the irony.

If Rotherham can do it with a board and owner with less resource and a smaller ground then there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be able to.  Need to get rid of Blunt for starters.

[dickos1]

This argument that crops up every year is a load of nonsense.
For starters the metropolitan borough population is irrelevant, plenty of folk living within this won’t have ever stepped foot into doncaster.
Secondly just because you live somewhere doesn’t mean you support that football club, we’re a very small football club who get very small gates, we’re currently getting much bigger gates than we did 30 years ago, even when we were in the championship playing great football we couldn’t sell out the keepmoat unless it was full of Leeds fans.

We just need to accept we’re a small club with a small fan base, not much of anything can change that

So if Forest Green Rovers got to the Premier League and had a stadium with a 20.000 capacity do you think they would fill it?
They would be lucky to get 10.000 gates in fact they wouldn’t get that many.
The population of Stroud which is the nearest town is 30.000
You would need to get 10.000 fans from Bristol to come and support them.

So to say populations don’t matter is the biggest load of nonsense you have come out with yet.

I am telling you Dickos if JR had got the money Bramall has got we would have had a serious pop at the Prmier League and if we had got into top 6 in the Championship we would have sold out our stadium every week.
Please don’t tell me Doncaster can’t support a Championship football club. It is that negative attitude that is why we are in League 2.
Total acceptance of mediocrity.  No ambition to make it happen.  JR did have that ambition but didn’t have enough money to make it happen.
If we had spent another 5 million in 2010/11 we could still be in the Championship now having never left it.
That would be 16 consecutive seasons in the 2nd tier.
That 5 million would have been a brilliant investment.

Listen to the latest John Ryan interview, he says it himself.
“Even when we were fighting at the top of the championship I couldn’t fill the keepmoat”

[dickos1]

This argument that crops up every year is a load of nonsense.
For starters the metropolitan borough population is irrelevant, plenty of folk living within this won’t have ever stepped foot into doncaster.
Secondly just because you live somewhere doesn’t mean you support that football club, we’re a very small football club who get very small gates, we’re currently getting much bigger gates than we did 30 years ago, even when we were in the championship playing great football we couldn’t sell out the keepmoat unless it was full of Leeds fans.

We just need to accept we’re a small club with a small fan base, not much of anything can change that

What is this tosh.

Our metropolitan area is very important, it shows to a level the catchment area our club has, it shows the number of fans we should be targeting.

We don't need to accept small crowds at all, success brings bigger crowds, we  were averaging nearly 12,000 15 year ago when we were in the Championship, now we're at 6,000 at our lowest point in 20 years. You don't need to be in MENSA to understand that Dickos.

I agree, I don't understand all this " you can't count the metropolitan borough" stuff. I have never lived in "inner" city/town Doncaster, and before moving away had always lived in the wider borough, but I've always considered myself as being from Doncaster and always considered Rovers being my local team. If you're discounting the Metropolitan area, you're excluding Hatfield, Thorne and other such small peripheral towns, which are all very much Doncaster.

The fact is, for decades long before I was born we’ve had a poor fan base, generations of people supporting other clubs.
You don’t just start supporting other clubs because you move home, I live in Leeds and my kids were all born in Leeds or harrogate, doesn’t mean that they will now start supporting Leeds.
There’s plenty of factors more important than just where you live

[Donny Exile in York]

And your point is? Did Rotherham fill out their stadium week in week out this season Dickos?

And let's not forget their ground is a fifth smaller capacity wise than our stadium capacity

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Through the rise to the Championship and beyond, one of the key factors in growing support were kids and young families.

We saw a hell of a lot more during that period which was great however, I kinda hoped young kids might go against their Leeds, Sheff Wednesday, Blades supporting fathers, and would prefer to watch Rovers with their own mates when they were able to make their own mind up. That didn't really happen in numbers for much of a sustained period although we did see an overall gain in average attendances since being at the Keepmoat.

It's a generational thing. Few fans change their allegiances. It will take another period of relative success to build up the fan base. IF, we get to the Championship and beyond, we will attract those who normally only come out for big games and those who want to see bigger teams at the Eco Power. When we're not winning sufficiently, they are the first to drop off but you hope some will stick.

Another example. There's a couple of families moved into our street from out of the area (London and Cameroon) and both blokes are football fans and ask me about Rovers and they would be potential new fans if we push up the leagues.

Donny is quite a cosmopolitan Borough, so yes, there is a target audience but it will take time to get their attention and interest. It goes without saying that schools and junior football clubs is where most gains can be had. .

Sadly, it's more likely more Rovers fans are passing away than being born.

Edit: I meant to add. When we've been more successful, it's more noticeable alot more women and/or with kids attend. .

Also, using the Wrexham example, where footy has becomec'sexy' I bet there's been many conversations between man & wfe, girlfriend & boyfriend, where the women ask "So, when's the next game?" "Since when have you been interested in football!!??"

Go back to the Louis Tomlinson period when he played in, a friendly or charity match? when the attendance boomed. Did we see it as untapped potential? No, there were lots of complaints we were being overrun by teenage lasses!!

Answers on a postcard how DRFC can become 'sexy' again and gain that broader appeal.

[Chris Black come back]

The fabled Polish / Slovak / Lithuania fanbase locally just desperate to come and watch Rovers.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

The fabled Polish / Slovak / Lithuania fanbase locally just desperate to come and watch Rovers.

We did actually explore that avenue. One factor that was off putting to some of the Polish lads, was the cost of tickets at the time.

But yes, no reason why there couldn't be a take up from all backgrounds and nationalities.

[pib]

This argument that crops up every year is a load of nonsense.
For starters the metropolitan borough population is irrelevant, plenty of folk living within this won’t have ever stepped foot into doncaster.
Secondly just because you live somewhere doesn’t mean you support that football club, we’re a very small football club who get very small gates, we’re currently getting much bigger gates than we did 30 years ago, even when we were in the championship playing great football we couldn’t sell out the keepmoat unless it was full of Leeds fans.

We just need to accept we’re a small club with a small fan base, not much of anything can change that

What is this tosh.

Our metropolitan area is very important, it shows to a level the catchment area our club has, it shows the number of fans we should be targeting.

We don't need to accept small crowds at all, success brings bigger crowds, we  were averaging nearly 12,000 15 year ago when we were in the Championship, now we're at 6,000 at our lowest point in 20 years. You don't need to be in MENSA to understand that Dickos.

I agree, I don't understand all this " you can't count the metropolitan borough" stuff. I have never lived in "inner" city/town Doncaster, and before moving away had always lived in the wider borough, but I've always considered myself as being from Doncaster and always considered Rovers being my local team. If you're discounting the Metropolitan area, you're excluding Hatfield, Thorne and other such small peripheral towns, which are all very much Doncaster.

The fact is, for decades long before I was born we’ve had a poor fan base, generations of people supporting other clubs.
You don’t just start supporting other clubs because you move home, I live in Leeds and my kids were all born in Leeds or harrogate, doesn’t mean that they will now start supporting Leeds.
There’s plenty of factors more important than just where you live

Not disputing that at all. But the assertion made further up the thread (don't think it was by you) that you can't count the Metro area in our catchment area as a club is rubbish IMO. People from further out than DTC, Hexthorpe, Intake, and Hyde Park are in our catchment area. I'd go as far as to say our catchment area is all the way out to Belton/Epworth, down to Harworth/Blyth, out to Conisbrough and Mexborough, and north up to Askern/Norton.

That's not me saying that everyone in that area is going to be drawn to DRFC, of course not. But this whole thing about "our catchment area isn't the whole Metropolitan Borough" is false, for me.

[ForsolongaRover]

This argument that crops up every year is a load of nonsense.
For starters the metropolitan borough population is irrelevant, plenty of folk living within this won’t have ever stepped foot into doncaster.
Secondly just because you live somewhere doesn’t mean you support that football club, we’re a very small football club who get very small gates, we’re currently getting much bigger gates than we did 30 years ago, even when we were in the championship playing great football we couldn’t sell out the keepmoat unless it was full of Leeds fans.

We just need to accept we’re a small club with a small fan base, not much of anything can change that

I agree with the first part. I think it takes years of sustained success to change attitudes, so if we had managed to stay in the Championship we might now be reaping the benefits, but we didn’t. Population obviously enters into it to a degree. The only competition for fans in Leeds is Rugby League, but with half a million people they got huge gates in League 1, and they were the only team in the city, unlike  Sheffield. But all Sheffield’s people are crammed together not far from one or other of the two grounds, not scattered over more than 100 square miles like Doncaster MB.

The people of Doncaster MB are more scattered than those of the Rotherham or Barnsley equivalents. I might also venture to suggest, in the historical context, that the old concept of football being sport of the “working class”, the “industrial” man is more consistent with the population and character of Barnsley and Rotherham. Obviously whilst the makeup of crowds has changed in the last 20 years, there is still significant numbers who were part of that industrial working class when they got into the habit of going to football.

In contrast, although Doncaster had its heavy industry and pits it was also a major “market town” which makes it an agricultural centre too and also a much bigger shopping centre than either of the other two. In other words Rotherham and Barnsley have more in common with each other than with Doncaster.

I suppose basically if there is a science associated with an issue like this it is “Human Geography” which has historical aspects and is far more complex than a study of current populations and political entities.

[tyke1962]

A good, well run club; especially when you consider the size of the town.

A good chairman makes all the difference.

SS Rotherham has a MBC population of 255.000 it is not a small town.
Or maybe it is just a small town in the city of Doncaster.   

But seriously it is bigger than Middlesbrough, Blackburn, Ipswich & Barnsley just as examples they all have a better history than the Millers.

Rotherham isn’t bigger than Middlesbrough or Ipswich. Neither is Doncaster. Stop looking at MBC populations.

Teeside is 370.00 so in that respect it it larger than Doncaster and Rotherham.
Ipswich is only about 140.000 but have a huge rural catchment area. All of Suffolk.
Same goes for Plymouth they have all of Cornwall and at least half of Devon as their catchment.

The point is if Rovers got sustained Championship football the fan base would steadily increase.
Look at how Barnsley’s fan base has increased due to sustained 2nd tier football. The season in the Premier league had a huge bearing on it but even when the dip to the 3rd tier they ave around 11/12.000

Barnsley we’re getting gates of 4.000 back in the 70’s before their resurgence in the 80’s

That must have been a good day Campsall because they weren't much above 2k in the mid 70's .

1,200 for a home game against Workington in 1973 .

We had a huge resurgence when Allan Clarke was appointed in 1978 and he got the gates up to 10k .

When Norman Hunter took over and we were promoted to the second division in 1981 we were hitting 17k plus .

The 84 Miners Strike saw gates drop substantially and I dare say second division football got a bit sterile after a while .

Your dead right about the PL season retaining to a certain extent what we have today as a core support .

However the Town itself is extremely proud of the club whether people go through the turnstiles or not with what it's achieved on limited resources and as the classic underdog .

People in such a economically challenged town can relate to that and the fact every now and again we give the big boys a bloody nose .

[danumdon]

A good, well run club; especially when you consider the size of the town.

A good chairman makes all the difference.

SS Rotherham has a MBC population of 255.000 it is not a small town.
Or maybe it is just a small town in the city of Doncaster.   

But seriously it is bigger than Middlesbrough, Blackburn, Ipswich & Barnsley just as examples they all have a better history than the Millers.

Rotherham isn’t bigger than Middlesbrough or Ipswich. Neither is Doncaster. Stop looking at MBC populations.

Teeside is 370.00 so in that respect it it larger than Doncaster and Rotherham.
Ipswich is only about 140.000 but have a huge rural catchment area. All of Suffolk.
Same goes for Plymouth they have all of Cornwall and at least half of Devon as their catchment.

The point is if Rovers got sustained Championship football the fan base would steadily increase.
Look at how Barnsley’s fan base has increased due to sustained 2nd tier football. The season in the Premier league had a huge bearing on it but even when the dip to the 3rd tier they ave around 11/12.000

Barnsley we’re getting gates of 4.000 back in the 70’s before their resurgence in the 80’s

That must have been a good day Campsall because they weren't much above 2k in the mid 70's .

1,200 for a home game against Workington in 1973 .

We had a huge resurgence when Allan Clarke was appointed in 1978 and he got the gates up to 10k .

When Norman Hunter took over and we were promoted to the second division in 1981 we were hitting 17k plus .

The 84 Miners Strike saw gates drop substantially and I dare say second division football got a bit sterile after a while .

Your dead right about the PL season retaining to a certain extent what we have today as a core support .

However the Town itself is extremely proud of the club whether people go through the turnstiles or not with what it's achieved on limited resources and as the classic underdog .

People in such a economically challenged town can relate to that and the fact every now and again we give the big boys a bloody nose .

All this surly begs the question, why are we getting it so wrong?

When you look at the comparisons to out near neighbours we have been mighty underachieve, so why?

I do realise that the answers are not that easy to decipher but we do seem to have a habit of falling harder and for longer than the rest of South Yorks.

The worst thing about all this for me is that when we needed that White Knight to ride to our aid we managed to eventually undermine and not support his vision of what we needed to do to ensure people like me would not be writing things like this now.

We had our big chance, the start was made by JR, it needed more to come in and run with it and give it the impulse and extra drive it needed to see us over the line to becoming that established championship quality team.

We all, and that includes the board, management and the fan base failed to pick up the baton and run with it.

In our case we stuck it in a drawer never to be seen again.

Another generation will have to wait it out and see where we go?

[Chris Black come back]

We made a lot of calls right until about 2 years ago. Ultimately Moore left us in the absolute shit but we had us right in contention for promotion and had a defined strategy - basically working only with EPL loans as he wasn’t able to work with a squad only of League One players. He was no long term visionary coach but he had us in contention until the last month or two when he basically sacked it off. I’m not defending him but if the criteria is being top end League One contenders, he had us there.

Since then, pretty every single decision we have made in terms of manager and player recruitment has been a total disaster. You name it, we f**ked it up, with just a few very isolated exceptions. So you can date it all back to March 2021. Something happened then and decision-making has been a total disaster zone ever since.