Keith Starmer , The Liar , Murdoch's Man And Candidate For MI5

[Bristol Red Rover]

I've voted Labour every time in national electons. Starmer is by far the worst leader Labour have had, but that wouldn't decide my choice. The whole Labour machine, how it has become authoritarian, the machine behind what's happening, the heavy veering away from its members toward being sponsored by business, its corruption in reganrds to a perverse take on anti semitism, and then its total lack of socialist policies.

I will probably vote Green who may well get in in my constituency, or a socialist candidate, or spoil the ballot paper.

For the record, Sunak is far far worse than Starmer.

[Bristol Red Rover]

How anyone could give a guarantee on anything to do with governments of any standing is by its very nature foolish.

Interesting to see you don't agree with family's keeping their hard earned and taxed wealth in the family.

They CAN keep it. After paying inheritance tax. It's one of THE most progressive taxes you can have.

I don't see anything "progressive" about relatives paying a 40% tax on wealth that you have already paid tax on(probably at the higher rate) and after a lifetime of paying taxes(probably at a higher rate) into the state's purse.

Also why charge a rate that is far higher than most?

Seems like personal responsibility gets trumped by spending others people hard earned, i wonder what types would buy into this ?

40% - after £450,000. That's more than fine. It should head up towards 90% as the amount gets to the silly levels.

As for "hard earned", you do know that under our capitalist system, especially with the machnery behnd it, that the amounts earned are not congruent with just "hard work"? I know plenty who have worked themselves to death who were left with barely a penny in the pot. If you have more than £450k, then you should be thankful for your good fortune.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I know you you are all shy in revealing which option,so I’ll start you all off

STARMER

Neither!

I don't think labour are offering as yet anything to excite it's very much "not the Tories".  But the Tories are just unvotable right now.

Neither isn't an option.

One or other of those two will be PM next December. You don't get your ideal choice. You get the choice life gives you.

Neither is an option if the question is who do I want to be PM.

Another important question along with Starmer or Sunak, is Labour or Conservative?

Unfortunately, my answers to these really simple questions, if I have to choose one from each,  are Sunak and Labour.

Then you are copping out.

It's a REALLY simple question.

Next year you have a choice between a Starmer/Labour led Govt and a Sunak/Tory one.

You don't have any other realistic choices.

Which one do you prefer?

I don't understand why so many people are so reticent on as simple a question as that.

[danumdon]

I'ts a pity you don't get to have a say in where your taxes are allocated.

Would make very interesting reading, especially for governments who feel the need to relieve you of even more of it!

[Bentley Bullet]

I know you you are all shy in revealing which option,so I’ll start you all off

STARMER

Neither!

I don't think labour are offering as yet anything to excite it's very much "not the Tories".  But the Tories are just unvotable right now.

Neither isn't an option.

One or other of those two will be PM next December. You don't get your ideal choice. You get the choice life gives you.

Neither is an option if the question is who do I want to be PM.

Another important question along with Starmer or Sunak, is Labour or Conservative?

Unfortunately, my answers to these really simple questions, if I have to choose one from each,  are Sunak and Labour.

Then you are copping out.

It's a REALLY simple question.

Next year you have a choice between a Starmer/Labour led Govt and a Sunak/Tory one.

You don't have any other realistic choices.

Which one do you prefer?

I don't understand why so many people are so reticent on as simple a question as that.

Why don't you start a poll?

[belton rover]

I know you you are all shy in revealing which option,so I’ll start you all off

STARMER

Neither!

I don't think labour are offering as yet anything to excite it's very much "not the Tories".  But the Tories are just unvotable right now.

Neither isn't an option.

One or other of those two will be PM next December. You don't get your ideal choice. You get the choice life gives you.

Neither is an option if the question is who do I want to be PM.

Another important question along with Starmer or Sunak, is Labour or Conservative?

Unfortunately, my answers to these really simple questions, if I have to choose one from each,  are Sunak and Labour.

Then you are copping out.

It's a REALLY simple question.

Next year you have a choice between a Starmer/Labour led Govt and a Sunak/Tory one.

You don't have any other realistic choices.

Which one do you prefer?

I don't understand why so many people are so reticent on as simple a question as that.

I don’t know how clearer I could be, Billy.
I would rather be led by Sunak than Starmer.
But I’ll be voting for neither.

[drfchound]

DD.
I will guarantee you that the next Labour Government will not be worse than the shower of shit that we have had and still have.

Come back in 6 years and see.

Or, we could have another Sunak Govt that now wants to abolish Inheritance Tax, giving £7bn per year to 4% of the population.

Your call.

Or we could have Starmer.
I have copied a post I made a few days ago, is Starmer the better bet?

12
Off Topic / Re: Why has Sunak changed Tory Green Policies?
« on: September 22, 2023, 04:33:51 pm »
On the subject of political partys changing their mind on things, I read today about Labours plans to ditch their plans to raise sick pay and guarantee it to all. Last week Raynor received a standing ovation at Trade Union Congress after telling attendees that that the next Labour government will strengthen and increase statutory sick pay.
Days later Labour has U Turned on this pledge and weakened its policies to strengthen workers rights.
How come this hasn’t been mentioned on here?

[wilts rover]

We may not agree with Sunak but he has genuine beliefs and is honest and true with the public regarding them.

Starmer, is absolutely not anything remotely like that but people will vote for him because he's, well, he's ................. Oh f**k it, he's Labour.

Rishi Sunak's lies exposed:

Peter Stefanovic has a (large) number of examples on his twitter feed - with video confirmation

https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2

also in comment by Peter Oborne & others:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/23/boris-johnson-rishi-sunak-truth-integrity

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/letters/rishi-sunak-commons-vote-tory-party-integrity-b2360930.html

https://earthbound.report/2023/09/21/10-lies-rishi-sunak-is-telling-about-net-zero/

Not particuarly a fan of Starmer or his political drift. But I understand why he has done it in his attempt to attract the Sc*m and Daily Mail readers. Who will never vote for him even if he adopted every Thatcherite policy - which he isn't far from doing.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'ts a pity you don't get to have a say in where your taxes are allocated.

Would make very interesting reading, especially for governments who feel the need to relieve you of even more of it!

Shall we have a talk about how societies work? And about how some of the happiest and most productive societies on earth have some of the very highest taxes?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I know you you are all shy in revealing which option,so I’ll start you all off

STARMER

Neither!

I don't think labour are offering as yet anything to excite it's very much "not the Tories".  But the Tories are just unvotable right now.

Neither isn't an option.

One or other of those two will be PM next December. You don't get your ideal choice. You get the choice life gives you.

Neither is an option if the question is who do I want to be PM.

Another important question along with Starmer or Sunak, is Labour or Conservative?

Unfortunately, my answers to these really simple questions, if I have to choose one from each,  are Sunak and Labour.

Then you are copping out.

It's a REALLY simple question.

Next year you have a choice between a Starmer/Labour led Govt and a Sunak/Tory one.

You don't have any other realistic choices.

Which one do you prefer?

I don't understand why so many people are so reticent on as simple a question as that.

I don’t know how clearer I could be, Billy.
I would rather be led by Sunak than Starmer.
But I’ll be voting for neither.

Belton

Forgive me for stating the bleeding obvious, but you are answering a question that doesn't exist.

You cannot have what you want.

You have a binary choice next year. If you are genuinely saying that you're not particularly bothered which one wins, say that.

[wilts rover]

How anyone could give a guarantee on anything to do with governments of any standing is by its very nature foolish.

Interesting to see you don't agree with family's keeping their hard earned and taxed wealth in the family.

They CAN keep it. After paying inheritance tax. It's one of THE most progressive taxes you can have.

I don't see anything "progressive" about relatives paying a 40% tax on wealth that you have already paid tax on(probably at the higher rate) and after a lifetime of paying taxes(probably at a higher rate) into the state's purse.

Also why charge a rate that is far higher than most?

Seems like personal responsibility gets trumped by spending others people hard earned, i wonder what types would buy into this ?

The Tories have put up taxes for ordinary people in 25 consecutive budgets. The only one Hunt cut in the last one was for City Bankers:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/fury-18-billion-tory-giveaway-28517889

Now they want to cut one that only the richest 4% of the country pay:

https://www.ft.com/content/3996c757-3395-413c-a490-3af257cab18f

at a cost of £7 Billion. How much do you think Income Tax should go up for the rest of us to pay for this tax break for billionaires?

[Filo]

I know you you are all shy in revealing which option,so I’ll start you all off

STARMER

Neither!

I don't think labour are offering as yet anything to excite it's very much "not the Tories".  But the Tories are just unvotable right now.

Neither isn't an option.

One or other of those two will be PM next December. You don't get your ideal choice. You get the choice life gives you.

Neither is an option if the question is who do I want to be PM.

Another important question along with Starmer or Sunak, is Labour or Conservative?

Unfortunately, my answers to these really simple questions, if I have to choose one from each,  are Sunak and Labour.

Then you are copping out.

It's a REALLY simple question.

Next year you have a choice between a Starmer/Labour led Govt and a Sunak/Tory one.

You don't have any other realistic choices.

Which one do you prefer?

I don't understand why so many people are so reticent on as simple a question as that.

Why don't you start a poll?

You want hide behind a poll?

I can’t believe my question was that difficult to answer, I made easy and asked for no detailed answer, but everyone has given a detailed answer and avoided the question!

[drfchound]

Come on Filo, you know very well that there are many many questions that go unanswered on here.

[Filo]

Come on Filo, you know very well that there are many many questions that go unanswered on here.

I do, I’m just wondering why this one is so had to answer given it a a binary choice

[scawsby steve]

OK, we all know that Sunak is a crap PM. That's got that out of the way.

Now, can any of you Starmer fans out there cite ONE single thing that suggests he might be a decent PM?

Or to put it more concisely, what part of "they're both exactly the f*cking same" are you not getting?

[Filo]

OK, we all know that Sunak is a crap PM. That's got that out of the way.

Now, can any of you Starmer fans out there cite ONE single thing that suggests he might be a decent PM?

Or to put it more concisely, what part of "they're both exactly the f*cking same" are you not getting?

But I never asked that question, I specifically asked for poster to type one name only from the two choices, so far no one from either side has has done that apart from me, what are you all shy about?

[Bentley Bullet]

What if neither of those is your choice?

[MachoMadness]

Braverman gave a speech today that was within spitting distance of Powell's rivers of blood.

On the other hand, you have Labour threatening to have families of refugees coming over on boats classed as terrorists.

I wonder why people can't tell the difference between the two parties!

[BillyStubbsTears]

My take on Starmer is this:

1) Do I think he will be a first rate PM? No. But compared to the alternative, who
- supported Brexit from the off

-introduced the quite insane Eat Out To Help Out policy

-brought  idiots like Heneghan and  Gupta into Downing St to talk Johnson out of an early lockdown in late 2020, arguably killing 60,000 people and costing us far more when the inevitable lockdown did finally come

- is campaigning on nothing but Culture War and tax cuts for the very wealthiest

- has a borderline fascist as his Home Secretary

- openly bragged about diverting money from northern towns to Tonbridge

I'll take Starmer every time.

2) Was there a better Labour alternative? I think Burnham will be leader within 10 years, but he wasn't available at the time. The one and only alternative to Starmer in 2020 was Rebecca Long-Bailey.  Think about that...

3) Do I like his changes of policy? No and I do think he's gone too far to the Right. But this is politics, not a debating club. If Labour, starting where they started in  early 2020, were going to win the next Election, two things needed to happen i) the new Leader had to be elected by a membership that had effectively been hijacked by people WAY to the Left of the population as a whole. ii) The leader then had to sell Labour to the population as a whole.

Before you knee jerk criticise Starmer, just stop and think what a near-impossible task it is to do that and stay 100% pure on every policy stance. The Left that took over the party in the late 2010s effectively had to be hoodwinked for the greater good. Then he had to marginalise them, because the Corbyn strand of the Labour party was, like it or not, poison to the electorate. Any Labour supporter who doesn't accept that never went out canvassing opinion at the last election.

What Starmer had to do was to appeal to the Corbynistas to become leader. Then can them, to have a chance of becoming PM. Do I like it? No. But what was the alternative? Leave Labour to go into the next Election with posters of Starmer as a puppet with Corbyn's hand up his arse all over the country.

It's far, far from perfect. It's grubby. It's unpleasant. But if it gets us a shot at a Government that can replace the cluster f**k of this past few years and make the first steps towards repairing the damage that 14 years of Tory economics and infighting has done, so be it. It's real life, not some soft focus video of what we'd like life to be.

[belton rover]

Billy. The question was Starmer or Sunak. My answer was Sunak.

I won’t be voting for Sunak, because the Conservative party need to stand down, or be stood down.
I won’t vote for Labour because I don’t trust Starmer.
I will vote, though.

It’s that bleeding obvious.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Braverman gave a speech today that was within spitting distance of Powell's rivers of blood.

On the other hand, you have Labour threatening to have families of refugees coming over on boats classed as terrorists.

I wonder why people can't tell the difference between the two parties!

Excellent out-of-context summary of Labour's policy there. Remember that the Left's insistence that Brown couldn't be supported in 2010 because he was a Red Tory was instrumental in putting the Tories in power. And it turned out there was a f**king chasm of difference.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton.

With respect, you're doing the syntax thing again. Arguing about words rather than content. Because, if you stop and think about it, it's obvious that the choice you actually have is, from the end of next year, to live in a country with a Tory led Govt, headed by Sunak. Or to live in a country with a Labour led Govt, headed by Starmer.

That actually IS the choice. I don't understand why people are so reluctant to say which of those they would prefer to live in.

[Bentley Bullet]

If there was just a choice between Starmer and Sunak I'd go for Sunak.

[belton rover]

Belton.

With respect, you're doing the syntax thing again. Arguing about words rather than content. Because, if you stop and think about it, it's obvious that the choice you actually have is, from the end of next year, to live in a country with a Tory led Govt, headed by Sunak. Or to live in a country with a Labour led Govt, headed by Starmer.

That actually IS the choice. I don't understand why people are so reluctant to say which of those they would prefer to live in.

I just knew you would accuse me of that again.
The question was actually a silly, pointless one then wasn’t it?
One minute you are saying it is a simple question that requires a simple answer, and I am copping out by not answering it simply. The next minute you are telling me what the question really means.
And I’m the one playing the syntax game.

I’ll try to answer a slightly different way:
I choose Sunak and the Conservatives.
Then, when Starmer is gone, maybe Labour will get a good leader for the next election.

But that’s highly unlikely to happen, isn’t it?

[Ldr]

So the takeaway here is that ppl don’t care that Starmer may be a lying hypocrite with no principles but he’s “our” lying hypocrite with no principles aye?


#vote Labour (not cos they are any good but simply cos they ain’t the tories)

[drfchound]

So the takeaway here is that ppl don’t care that Starmer may be a lying hypocrite with no principles but he’s “our” lying hypocrite with no principles aye?


#vote Labour (not cos they are any good but simply cos they ain’t the tories)

That sums it up very well mate.

[Filo]

So the takeaway here is that ppl don’t care that Starmer may be a lying hypocrite with no principles but he’s “our” lying hypocrite with no principles aye?


#vote Labour (not cos they are any good but simply cos they ain’t the tories)

No the question is simple, but you avoided it

[Iberian Red]

Personally I would bring back Boris. That would make the idiots happy.
It might also stop them blahing on and f**king on about a party that isn't in power.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

If there was just a choice between Starmer and Sunak I'd go for Sunak.

Likewise between the two but it's not just them it's both front benches.  The Tory front bench is incredibly weak there's only a few of them anywhere close to being strong.  I tend to think labour have with their current set more competent leaders all round.

[Bristol Red Rover]

One of BST's points, and the standard line of signed up Labour activists when they are canvessing is that Starmer had to appeal to the electorate. If only that's what it is. Wrong. The fact is he has chosen to appeal to business, the media (the Murdoch etc wing), and the controlling elites.

The alternative of putting even diluted socialist policies forward has been cast aside. Not only that, but his Labour party fought against Corbyn before both elections. He himself kept largely in the shadows - I wonder why?

Voting for Starmer is not going to bring anything remotely socialist into being, not even a better deal for the majority who are the victims of an elite controlled system that enslaves them.

Playing the game as BST refers to is accepting the rules, being complicit in affirming this. Honesty has value, it's a way of being that brings about positive change.

This is the worst Labout party ever, an insult to all who created and built it.