Labour U Turns Part 164

[idler]

It does also point that it overestimated a large period of the Labour term in office but consistently underestimated the Tory government right through their tenure. It can’t be coincidence.
That doesn’t inspire faith in honest reporting does it?

[i_ateallthepies]

That sudden upturn in National Debt under Labour coincides exactly with the World Banking crisis, the solution to which urgently needed money from the Government.  But of course you will know that.

[wilts rover]

Cheers for posting that graph wilts.
It clearly shows that the National Debt was clearly on the rise for a few years before 2010.
Can you suggest where it might be now had Labour still been in government.
Would things have been any different.

Yes it would have fallen.

It rose under Labour because of Brown's support for the bankers during the world financial crash (caused in no small part by people like Sunak & Javid, investment bankers & hedge-fund managers betting against the £ - and they got to run the economy!!!) then continued to rise because of Cameron's austerity, tax cuts & Brexit under him & his successors (lack of investment, tax cuts for the ultra wealthy, political instability).

We clearly wouldn't have had these under Brown. He would have invested to stimulate economic growth across the country - and kept taxes at the same level to pay off the debt. And there wouldn't have been a referendum so the fall in the £ and stagnation of growth since 2016 wouldn't have happened. Putin's invasion of Ukraine probably wouldn't have happened either - as that was partly down to Brexit (he saw Europe splintered & weakened).

Fantasy politics, and who knows what may actually have happened, but that's my take on it.

[SydneyRover]

If anyone is stupid enough to question what labour would have done, no other government would have embarked on a period of Austerity to the extent that the tories have. bleeding obvious.

[wilts rover]

Sproty is rapidly turning into the Laura Trott of the forum btw. No not the top British cyclist but the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, and thus second in charge of our economy, who doesn't know that if something goes up for 4 years, then shows a slight fall from year 4 to year 5, it is higher than it is now!

And to prove idler's point above - just imagine if this was Diane Abbott on national radio:

https://twitter.com/BBCPM/status/1755906381461262564

[SydneyRover]

Sproty is rapidly turning into the Laura Trott of the forum btw. No not the top British cyclist but the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, and thus second in charge of our economy, who doesn't know that if something goes up for 4 years, then shows a slight fall from year 4 to year 5, it is higher than it is now!

And to prove idler's point above - just imagine if this was Diane Abbott on national radio:

https://twitter.com/BBCPM/status/1755906381461262564

jeez

''I am delighted to have been appointed by HM The King as Chief Secretary to HM Treasury.
With the Autumn Statement round the corner I am looking forward to getting to work straight away, alongside The Chancellor. We must stick to our plan to halve inflation, grow the economy and reform our public services.
I will of course continue to work on behalf of all my constituents in #Sevenoaks and #Swanley so if you need help or would like to discuss your issue, please do email me at laura.trott.mp@parliament.uk''

https://www.facebook.com/lauratrottmp/posts/i-am-delighted-to-have-been-appointed-by-hm-the-king-as-chief-secretary-to-hm-tr/745987640677778/

[wilts rover]

Sproty is rapidly turning into the Laura Trott of the forum btw. No not the top British cyclist but the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, and thus second in charge of our economy, who doesn't know that if something goes up for 4 years, then shows a slight fall from year 4 to year 5, it is higher than it is now!

And to prove idler's point above - just imagine if this was Diane Abbott on national radio:

https://twitter.com/BBCPM/status/1755906381461262564

jeez

''I am delighted to have been appointed by HM The King as Chief Secretary to HM Treasury.
With the Autumn Statement round the corner I am looking forward to getting to work straight away, alongside The Chancellor. We must stick to our plan to halve inflation, grow the economy and reform our public services.
I will of course continue to work on behalf of all my constituents in #Sevenoaks and #Swanley so if you need help or would like to discuss your issue, please do email me at laura.trott.mp@parliament.uk''

https://www.facebook.com/lauratrottmp/posts/i-am-delighted-to-have-been-appointed-by-hm-the-king-as-chief-secretary-to-hm-tr/745987640677778/

'I have different figures!' She clearly has no knowledge of what she has been sent out to discuss and is reading from a script (how she looks down when she is talking). And she runs the economy!!!!

I actually quite like her as an MP. She did a very good interview with Sophy Ridge on social media and domestic vilolence earlier this year. Should have stuck to that.

[SydneyRover]

That is the problem wilts, those that were at all any good were sacked or have gone, the bottom of the barrel is a difficult place to find specialists for senior positions.

[Sprotyrover]

If you'd like to discuss all this with hound, sprot I'm sure he can accommodate you,  but careful he's likely to make a slur, delete it and then claim he never wrote it

typical Balby reject ! paint yourself into a corner, can’t find an answer to defend your silly rhetoric, so desperately try to change the subject!

[Sprotyrover]

Starmer on ITV saying the u turn is necessary because the Tories are "maxing out the government credit card".

Great politics, in no way shackles them to an illiterate economic policy. Very smart, very grown up.

Is there any evidence Labour would have spent less?

And what is the difference between this and Cameron’s rhetoric in 2010?


*edit sorry I think I just clocked your sarcasm

See bpoolrover's post above. He continues to trot out Cameron's retoric from 2010 and it was and still is a lie. The UK national debt when Labour left office in 2010 was just under £1 trillion. It is now over £2.5 trillion TWO AND A HALF TIMES as much.

Cameron lied to the public, and was helped by the media not least the BBC who kept repeating this lie 'there's no money left' he and they knew as well as anyone that sovereign governments can never run out of money. It's a political choice on how much debt they run up - and how they choose to repay that debt.

Cameron lied repeatedly, Starmer has downsized his pledges. The public will judge if these things are the same.

One word PANDEMIC, another word WAR ! Grow up Wilts

Another word b*llocks! Check your facts before posting rubbish in public Sproty. The majority of the debt increase was before 2020 (graphs show total debt in monarary terms and as a % of GDP)

So Wilts National Debt triples under Labours tenure
Despite ‘Brown Bottom’,unsettling our much envied Private Pension funds, plundering the Mineworkers Pension fund, and selling off our Gold reserves for a fraction of their actual worth, Labour spent that money poorly on Quangos, ‘Charities’(Action 4 Employment being a typical example) and chucking money at local Councils with Spendthrift habits, My example of Bradford City council getting £500,000 in the dying days of the government which they squandered on 19 PA’S for the useless incompetent 19 Neighbourhood managers they had set on(£100k salary each) was typical and did we miss Government offices x7 my mate was seconded to Go South East and watched as over 1,000 peeps on over £50k each
Desperately tried and failed to find real jobs in the real world, have to take the kids out of private school, cancel the Sky holidays sell the Chelsea Tractor and sell the house! and you have the cheek to insinuate that the Coalition government, who inherited an empty coffer and all of that debt became totally responsible the day they went into office, how long did it take to turn that Oil Tanker?

[wilts rover]

Starmer on ITV saying the u turn is necessary because the Tories are "maxing out the government credit card".

Great politics, in no way shackles them to an illiterate economic policy. Very smart, very grown up.

Is there any evidence Labour would have spent less?

And what is the difference between this and Cameron’s rhetoric in 2010?


*edit sorry I think I just clocked your sarcasm

See bpoolrover's post above. He continues to trot out Cameron's retoric from 2010 and it was and still is a lie. The UK national debt when Labour left office in 2010 was just under £1 trillion. It is now over £2.5 trillion TWO AND A HALF TIMES as much.

Cameron lied to the public, and was helped by the media not least the BBC who kept repeating this lie 'there's no money left' he and they knew as well as anyone that sovereign governments can never run out of money. It's a political choice on how much debt they run up - and how they choose to repay that debt.

Cameron lied repeatedly, Starmer has downsized his pledges. The public will judge if these things are the same.

One word PANDEMIC, another word WAR ! Grow up Wilts

Another word b*llocks! Check your facts before posting rubbish in public Sproty. The majority of the debt increase was before 2020 (graphs show total debt in monarary terms and as a % of GDP)

So Wilts National Debt triples under Labours tenure
Despite ‘Brown Bottom’,unsettling our much envied Private Pension funds, plundering the Mineworkers Pension fund, and selling off our Gold reserves for a fraction of their actual worth, Labour spent that money poorly on Quangos, ‘Charities’(Action 4 Employment being a typical example) and chucking money at local Councils with Spendthrift habits, My example of Bradford City council getting £500,000 in the dying days of the government which they squandered on 19 PA’S for the useless incompetent 19 Neighbourhood managers they had set on(£100k salary each) was typical and did we miss Government offices x7 my mate was seconded to Go South East and watched as over 1,000 peeps on over £50k each
Desperately tried and failed to find real jobs in the real world, have to take the kids out of private school, cancel the Sky holidays sell the Chelsea Tractor and sell the house! and you have the cheek to insinuate that the Coalition government, who inherited an empty coffer and all of that debt became totally responsible the day they went into office, how long did it take to turn that Oil Tanker?

The National Debt was falling under Labour, even as they invested in public services, until the world financial crisis.

The National Debt has never fallen under the Tories post 2010, despite disinvesting in public services and flogging off public assests.

But yeh, it's been good for tax dodging billionaires - and their apologists.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Good also for those who feed off imaginary crumbs cast towards them whilst their masters eat real cake. Working class Tories eh! Oh, and having a shiny stupid costly Merc, a detached house, kids in private education, a pension portfolio etc etc doesn't mean you aren't wearing the proverbial cloth cap.

[Bentley Bullet]

We're all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars.

[Bristol Red Rover]

We're all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars.

That's called concussion. Probs alcoholism too - the addictive behaviour that causes people to try and mask  their reality, and keep on doing self destructive acts in the belief they'll be better,  eg voting Tory.

[drfchound]

Starmer on ITV saying the u turn is necessary because the Tories are "maxing out the government credit card".

Great politics, in no way shackles them to an illiterate economic policy. Very smart, very grown up.

Is there any evidence Labour would have spent less?

And what is the difference between this and Cameron’s rhetoric in 2010?


*edit sorry I think I just clocked your sarcasm

See bpoolrover's post above. He continues to trot out Cameron's retoric from 2010 and it was and still is a lie. The UK national debt when Labour left office in 2010 was just under £1 trillion. It is now over £2.5 trillion TWO AND A HALF TIMES as much.

Cameron lied to the public, and was helped by the media not least the BBC who kept repeating this lie 'there's no money left' he and they knew as well as anyone that sovereign governments can never run out of money. It's a political choice on how much debt they run up - and how they choose to repay that debt.

Cameron lied repeatedly, Starmer has downsized his pledges. The public will judge if these things are the same.

One word PANDEMIC, another word WAR ! Grow up Wilts

Another word b*llocks! Check your facts before posting rubbish in public Sproty. The majority of the debt increase was before 2020 (graphs show total debt in monarary terms and as a % of GDP)

So Wilts National Debt triples under Labours tenure
Despite ‘Brown Bottom’,unsettling our much envied Private Pension funds, plundering the Mineworkers Pension fund, and selling off our Gold reserves for a fraction of their actual worth, Labour spent that money poorly on Quangos, ‘Charities’(Action 4 Employment being a typical example) and chucking money at local Councils with Spendthrift habits, My example of Bradford City council getting £500,000 in the dying days of the government which they squandered on 19 PA’S for the useless incompetent 19 Neighbourhood managers they had set on(£100k salary each) was typical and did we miss Government offices x7 my mate was seconded to Go South East and watched as over 1,000 peeps on over £50k each
Desperately tried and failed to find real jobs in the real world, have to take the kids out of private school, cancel the Sky holidays sell the Chelsea Tractor and sell the house! and you have the cheek to insinuate that the Coalition government, who inherited an empty coffer and all of that debt became totally responsible the day they went into office, how long did it take to turn that Oil Tanker?

The National Debt was falling under Labour, even as they invested in public services, until the world financial crisis.

The National Debt has never fallen under the Tories post 2010, despite disinvesting in public services and flogging off public assests.

But yeh, it's been good for tax dodging billionaires - and their apologists.

Wilts, unless the global financial crisis began in 2093 then your quote above is wrong.
According to your graph the ND began to rise continuously from 2003.

[drfchound]

Cheers for posting that graph wilts.
It clearly shows that the National Debt was clearly on the rise for a few years before 2010.
Can you suggest where it might be now had Labour still been in government.
Would things have been any different.

Yes it would have fallen.

It rose under Labour because of Brown's support for the bankers during the world financial crash (caused in no small part by people like Sunak & Javid, investment bankers & hedge-fund managers betting against the £ - and they got to run the economy!!!) then continued to rise because of Cameron's austerity, tax cuts & Brexit under him & his successors (lack of investment, tax cuts for the ultra wealthy, political instability).

We clearly wouldn't have had these under Brown. He would have invested to stimulate economic growth across the country - and kept taxes at the same level to pay off the debt. And there wouldn't have been a referendum so the fall in the £ and stagnation of growth since 2016 wouldn't have happened. Putin's invasion of Ukraine probably wouldn't have happened either - as that was partly down to Brexit (he saw Europe splintered & weakened).

Fantasy politics, and who knows what may actually have happened, but that's my take on it.

Fantasy politics indeed wilts.
Your take on that is seriously as viewed through rose tinted specs.
All speculation.

[Bentley Bullet]

We're all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars.

That's called concussion. Probs alcoholism too - the addictive behaviour that causes people to try and mask  their reality, and keep on doing self destructive acts in the belief they'll be better,  eg voting Tory.

You can call it what you like. I call it ambition.

[danumdon]

Starmer on ITV saying the u turn is necessary because the Tories are "maxing out the government credit card".

Great politics, in no way shackles them to an illiterate economic policy. Very smart, very grown up.

Is there any evidence Labour would have spent less?

And what is the difference between this and Cameron’s rhetoric in 2010?


*edit sorry I think I just clocked your sarcasm

See bpoolrover's post above. He continues to trot out Cameron's retoric from 2010 and it was and still is a lie. The UK national debt when Labour left office in 2010 was just under £1 trillion. It is now over £2.5 trillion TWO AND A HALF TIMES as much.

Cameron lied to the public, and was helped by the media not least the BBC who kept repeating this lie 'there's no money left' he and they knew as well as anyone that sovereign governments can never run out of money. It's a political choice on how much debt they run up - and how they choose to repay that debt.

Cameron lied repeatedly, Starmer has downsized his pledges. The public will judge if these things are the same.

One word PANDEMIC, another word WAR ! Grow up Wilts

Another word b*llocks! Check your facts before posting rubbish in public Sproty. The majority of the debt increase was before 2020 (graphs show total debt in monarary terms and as a % of GDP)

So Wilts National Debt triples under Labours tenure
Despite ‘Brown Bottom’,unsettling our much envied Private Pension funds, plundering the Mineworkers Pension fund, and selling off our Gold reserves for a fraction of their actual worth, Labour spent that money poorly on Quangos, ‘Charities’(Action 4 Employment being a typical example) and chucking money at local Councils with Spendthrift habits, My example of Bradford City council getting £500,000 in the dying days of the government which they squandered on 19 PA’S for the useless incompetent 19 Neighbourhood managers they had set on(£100k salary each) was typical and did we miss Government offices x7 my mate was seconded to Go South East and watched as over 1,000 peeps on over £50k each
Desperately tried and failed to find real jobs in the real world, have to take the kids out of private school, cancel the Sky holidays sell the Chelsea Tractor and sell the house! and you have the cheek to insinuate that the Coalition government, who inherited an empty coffer and all of that debt became totally responsible the day they went into office, how long did it take to turn that Oil Tanker?

Don't forget the disaster that was PFI, the vast bulk of which we have yet to taste but in the ensuring years this will rear its very ugly head again and will be something that will get rammed down Labours throat when the time comes and local councils are again up shit creek without a paddle and any money.

[SydneyRover]

I just wonder at times whether some could understand basic bookkeeping when you read really stupid comments

[Bristol Red Rover]

We're all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars.

That's called concussion. Probs alcoholism too - the addictive behaviour that causes people to try and mask  their reality, and keep on doing self destructive acts in the belief they'll be better,  eg voting Tory.

You can call it what you like. I call it ambition.

I've heard similar from many of those I've met lying in the gutter over the years.

[Bentley Bullet]

We're all in the gutter, but some of us are looking up at the stars.

That's called concussion. Probs alcoholism too - the addictive behaviour that causes people to try and mask  their reality, and keep on doing self destructive acts in the belief they'll be better,  eg voting Tory.

You can call it what you like. I call it ambition.

I've heard similar from many of those I've met lying in the gutter over the years.

My boss arrived at work in a brand-new Lamborghini.

I said, “Wow that’s an amazing car.”

He said, "If you work hard, put all your hours in, and strive for excellence, I’ll be able to get another one next year.”

[albie]

Reeves gave an interview on R4 after the rollback on the green industrial strategy, in which she failed to understand that resolving fuel poverty involved significant investment in alternatives and conservation initiatives such as home insulation.

The extraordinary belief that the laws of physics in relation to climate change can play second fiddle to made up "fiscal rules" is a serious concern to anyone with an understanding of science and the economy.

It looks like this has gone down like a pint of cold sick with the public, who increasingly see both parties as out of touch;
https://eciu.net/media/press-releases/2024/snap-poll-voters-concerned-over-energy-security-and-bills-following-labour-u-turn

Labour set themselves up for this disaster by plucking a figure out of the air in the first place, rather than setting up a tiered level of policy priorities for reform of the energy sector.

You have to wonder who is advising Keith and Co on this nonsense?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie.

That poll you quote has rightly been slaughtered by polling experts. It breaks the cardinal rule of honest polling, by using subjective language in the question.

A YouGov poll that used neutral language found no net effect.

[albie]

BST,

Opinium is a well respected polling organisation, and ECIU one of the leading climate authorities in the UK.
What is it you think is a "leading question", and who are the people objecting to the work?

I have not seen a YouGov poll that you refer to, taken after the green policy was abandonned, ....link please!

Whether or not the public approve or not, the issue is that Labour have painted themselves into a corner.

[SydneyRover]

We haven't heard much about the greens recently Albie, much going on?

[Bristol Red Rover]

We haven't heard much about the greens recently Albie, much going on?

They're buying organic popcorn to feed the masses watching the upcoming Feinstein v Starmer bout.

[albie]

I think Syd is still reeling from the news that Keith has dropped the plan to backdate the windfall tax to January 2022.
Oil and Gas excess profits were to be clawed back, if you remember.

Another one gone!

[drfchound]

I have noticed that when Starmer announces something like bringing in the windfall tax (which would have been a good thing) it gets plenty of mentions on here.
No one has mentioned that he has U Turned on that though, well apart from albie.

[scawsby steve]

This guy has U turned on more things than any Labour leader I can remember.

I wouldn't trust a single thing that comes out of his mouth.

[drfchound]

This guy has U turned on more things than any Labour leader I can remember.

I wouldn't trust a single thing that comes out of his mouth.

Well SS, apparently the electorate should look away and accept that it is ok.
Do anything to win.