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Quote from: SydneyRover on February 01, 2024, 06:14:15 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on February 01, 2024, 05:35:43 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on February 01, 2024, 05:24:50 pmQuote from: albie on February 01, 2024, 04:27:31 pmFollow the corporate money:https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/12/labour-for-sale/Who pays the piper, eh!If only we'd ever tried a genuine left wing approach eh? That might have worked.Don't come sqeeling Billy about the far right gathering pace when a Labour government just accepts the status quo .The far right will eat you for breakfast , dinner and tea .A bit hypocritical tyke when you promote and vote with the far right aye?You've been playing with a busted flush for too long tyke, the only person that appears not to know is yourself.Not as much as emigrating to a right wing country with some of the toughest immigration laws on the planet that voted not to give it's First People a voice in parliament .
Quote from: tyke1962 on February 01, 2024, 05:35:43 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on February 01, 2024, 05:24:50 pmQuote from: albie on February 01, 2024, 04:27:31 pmFollow the corporate money:https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/12/labour-for-sale/Who pays the piper, eh!If only we'd ever tried a genuine left wing approach eh? That might have worked.Don't come sqeeling Billy about the far right gathering pace when a Labour government just accepts the status quo .The far right will eat you for breakfast , dinner and tea .A bit hypocritical tyke when you promote and vote with the far right aye?You've been playing with a busted flush for too long tyke, the only person that appears not to know is yourself.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on February 01, 2024, 05:24:50 pmQuote from: albie on February 01, 2024, 04:27:31 pmFollow the corporate money:https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/12/labour-for-sale/Who pays the piper, eh!If only we'd ever tried a genuine left wing approach eh? That might have worked.Don't come sqeeling Billy about the far right gathering pace when a Labour government just accepts the status quo .The far right will eat you for breakfast , dinner and tea .
Quote from: albie on February 01, 2024, 04:27:31 pmFollow the corporate money:https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/12/labour-for-sale/Who pays the piper, eh!If only we'd ever tried a genuine left wing approach eh? That might have worked.
Follow the corporate money:https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/12/labour-for-sale/Who pays the piper, eh!
Quote from: tyke1962 on February 01, 2024, 06:24:50 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on February 01, 2024, 06:14:15 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on February 01, 2024, 05:35:43 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on February 01, 2024, 05:24:50 pmQuote from: albie on February 01, 2024, 04:27:31 pmFollow the corporate money:https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/12/labour-for-sale/Who pays the piper, eh!If only we'd ever tried a genuine left wing approach eh? That might have worked.Don't come sqeeling Billy about the far right gathering pace when a Labour government just accepts the status quo .The far right will eat you for breakfast , dinner and tea .A bit hypocritical tyke when you promote and vote with the far right aye?You've been playing with a busted flush for too long tyke, the only person that appears not to know is yourself.Not as much as emigrating to a right wing country with some of the toughest immigration laws on the planet that voted not to give it's First People a voice in parliament .Corby corbyn corbyn corbyn lefl left left far left oops far right.
MMI don't know if you are old enough to have been politically aware in the mid 90s. If you are, you'll remember that exactly the same criticisms were fired at Blair/Brown.Their Governments produced.A decade of unprecedentedly low inflation and unemployment.A huge increase in funding for the regions, for state education and the NHS.The Good Friday Agreement.Same sex marriages.A huge reduction in child poverty.The almost elimination of street sleeping and dozens of other, mostly incremental but collectively significant moves leftwards. And when the crunch came, Brown gave world leadership in preventing a second Great Depression.The Left called them Red Tories. Blair didn't come from nowhere. He was a reaction to the calamity of the Bennites taking over the party and making them unelectable. The Left sat on the sidelines sniping and complaining that he wasn't what they wanted. People in here who claim to be left wing voted against Brown in 2010 because, apparently, he was no better than having the Tories in power.Did I uncritically support those Governments? Nope. I railed against Blair because he wasn't as radical as I wanted. But I'll tell you this. I'd have taken 1 Blair over a hundred Benns and Foots.And today, I have all sorts of criticisms of Starmer. But I'd take one of him over 100 Corbyns.This is a once in a generation chance to isolate the Tories, leave them to rip themselves apart and let Labour get on with the 2 decade job of repairing the damage of the last 14 years. You don't do that by being as radical as you want. You do it by making Labour the natural home to swing voters, who are going to have a choice between a limited Labour party and a batshit far right Tory one. You may prefer ideological purity and Opposition. You may want someone to tip the system on its head. You had that from 15-19. Fat lot of f**king good it did. Your call.
What we have in the political class and Labour are absolutely no exception is a bunch of " where the wind blows strongest " brigade .This political class have no backbone and masquerade as a flock of sheep .The fact that a number of Labour supporters are hanging their hat on " jam tomorrow " and get moist about 1997 which may as well be 100 years ago for what relevance it is today .Catching the wind that blows strongest suggests no real political convictions , ideas , principles or actually any self respect and minerals .At least the witch had an abundance of what it took , I'll give her that .Most of these weasels make me physically sick to look at and that's across the political spectrum .
Quote from: tyke1962 on February 02, 2024, 07:45:56 pmWhat we have in the political class and Labour are absolutely no exception is a bunch of " where the wind blows strongest " brigade .This political class have no backbone and masquerade as a flock of sheep .The fact that a number of Labour supporters are hanging their hat on " jam tomorrow " and get moist about 1997 which may as well be 100 years ago for what relevance it is today .Catching the wind that blows strongest suggests no real political convictions , ideas , principles or actually any self respect and minerals .At least the witch had an abundance of what it took , I'll give her that .Most of these weasels make me physically sick to look at and that's across the political spectrum .Tyke,sorry. That's pure waffle.It's like the editorial of the worst editorial of the Daily Mail.Did Barnsley fans tell you to do one and post on another forum?
Quote from: Iberian Red on February 02, 2024, 08:25:12 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on February 02, 2024, 07:45:56 pmWhat we have in the political class and Labour are absolutely no exception is a bunch of " where the wind blows strongest " brigade .This political class have no backbone and masquerade as a flock of sheep .The fact that a number of Labour supporters are hanging their hat on " jam tomorrow " and get moist about 1997 which may as well be 100 years ago for what relevance it is today .Catching the wind that blows strongest suggests no real political convictions , ideas , principles or actually any self respect and minerals .At least the witch had an abundance of what it took , I'll give her that .Most of these weasels make me physically sick to look at and that's across the political spectrum .Tyke,sorry. That's pure waffle.It's like the editorial of the worst editorial of the Daily Mail.Did Barnsley fans tell you to do one and post on another forum?I think the situation has to be carefully managed IR, we shouldn’t drive him out back into the arms of those that find his views acceptable, he obviously spends a lot time with kindred spirits. The more time he spends here where his nonsense is challenged, where he only gets likes rather than solid written agreement the better. (snigger)
Quote from: SydneyRover on February 03, 2024, 02:03:43 amQuote from: Iberian Red on February 02, 2024, 08:25:12 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on February 02, 2024, 07:45:56 pmWhat we have in the political class and Labour are absolutely no exception is a bunch of " where the wind blows strongest " brigade .This political class have no backbone and masquerade as a flock of sheep .The fact that a number of Labour supporters are hanging their hat on " jam tomorrow " and get moist about 1997 which may as well be 100 years ago for what relevance it is today .Catching the wind that blows strongest suggests no real political convictions , ideas , principles or actually any self respect and minerals .At least the witch had an abundance of what it took , I'll give her that .Most of these weasels make me physically sick to look at and that's across the political spectrum .Tyke,sorry. That's pure waffle.It's like the editorial of the worst editorial of the Daily Mail.Did Barnsley fans tell you to do one and post on another forum?I think the situation has to be carefully managed IR, we shouldn’t drive him out back into the arms of those that find his views acceptable, he obviously spends a lot time with kindred spirits. The more time he spends here where his nonsense is challenged, where he only gets likes rather than solid written agreement the better. (snigger)So why didn't you challenge the points I made about Gaza and the Palestinians instead of finding some study that condemned the town of Barnsley as a racist breeding ground ?
Quote from: Iberian Red on February 02, 2024, 08:25:12 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on February 02, 2024, 07:45:56 pmWhat we have in the political class and Labour are absolutely no exception is a bunch of " where the wind blows strongest " brigade .This political class have no backbone and masquerade as a flock of sheep .The fact that a number of Labour supporters are hanging their hat on " jam tomorrow " and get moist about 1997 which may as well be 100 years ago for what relevance it is today .Catching the wind that blows strongest suggests no real political convictions , ideas , principles or actually any self respect and minerals .At least the witch had an abundance of what it took , I'll give her that .Most of these weasels make me physically sick to look at and that's across the political spectrum .Tyke,sorry. That's pure waffle.It's like the editorial of the worst editorial of the Daily Mail.Did Barnsley fans tell you to do one and post on another forum?I think the situation has to be carefully managed IR, we shouldn’t drive him out back into the arms of those that find his views acceptable, he obviously spends a lot time with kindred spirits. The more time he spends here where his nonsense is challenged, where he only gets likes rather than solid written agreement the better. (snigger)
Quote from: tyke1962 on February 02, 2024, 07:45:56 pmWhat we have in the political class and Labour are absolutely no exception is a bunch of " where the wind blows strongest " brigade .This political class have no backbone and masquerade as a flock of sheep .The fact that a number of Labour supporters are hanging their hat on " jam tomorrow " and get moist about 1997 which may as well be 100 years ago for what relevance it is today .Catching the wind that blows strongest suggests no real political convictions , ideas , principles or actually any self respect and minerals .At least the witch had an abundance of what it took , I'll give her that .Most of these weasels make me physically sick to look at and that's across the political spectrum .Tyke,sorry. That's pure waffle.It's like the editorial of the worst editorial of the Daily Mail.Did Barnsley fans tell you to do one and post on another forum?
What we have in the political class and Labour are absolutely no exception is a bunch of " where the wind blows strongest " brigade .This political class have no backbone and masquerade as a flock of sheep .The fact that a number of Labour supporters are hanging their hat on " jam tomorrow " and get moist about 1997 which may as well be 100 years ago for what relevance it is today .Catching the wind that blows strongest suggests no real political convictions , ideas , principles or actually any self respect and minerals .At least the witch had an abundance of what it took , I'll give her that .Most of these weasels make me physically sick to look at and that's across the political spectrum .
Tyke.Aye. Useless this Labour lot that concentrate on actually getting elected. What have they ever done for the working man eh?Unlike Benn and Foot and Scargill and Corbyn, eh? All true to their principles and steadfast supporters of the common man. They are the sort you want in charge of the Labour movement. People who make you feel good about your principles while achieving f**k all.This is what the Left has always been. Certain they are right, and bewildered when only 20% of the public agree with them. Thinking politics is a romantic crusade, when what it actually demands above and beyond everything else is making sure you win before you can do anything. You'd rather a compromise Labour lose and watch the Tories scrape back in, than support people who, once in power, might actually help you.You don't get it because you're determined, as the Left always has been, to see the grubby, dirty process of actually winning power as a betrayal. If you can't have someone in opposition making you personally feel they agree with exactly what you want, you'll chuck your tits out of the pram.You just said Thatcher had resolve. That shows how little you know of the art of gaining power. Let me give you one little example.In 1979, right wing economists were saying the Tories should commit to doubling VAT if they won. Labour went to town trying to pin that policy on Thatcher. Sheffield vehemently denied that she planned to double VAT.Do you know what she did after she won? Increased VAT from 8% to 15% after the election. Because once you've won, you can then do what you believe to be right, and if you're clever, you can do it in a way that means you haven't lied.There's a whole bunch of Left whiners currently screaming at Starmer for rescinding the commitment to spend £28bn on green policies. They want that commitment because it's what they believe. What never dawns on them is that Sunak wants that commitment from Labour even more. Because it gives him a chance to paint Labour as fiscally irresponsible. Doesn't matter if that is fair or not. It's worked for them for 15 years and they would hammer that line day and night in an election campaign.Labour have just taken away that attack line. When they win in the Autumn, that doesn't mean they WON'T invest heavily in the green economy. But it does hamper the Tory campaign.That's what people on the Left don't get. They are ideological dreamers who think if you campaign on the right things, everyone will agree with you and vote for you. They don't get the dirty reality of real campaigning. Or the fact that you have to win first.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on February 03, 2024, 12:22:30 amTyke.Aye. Useless this Labour lot that concentrate on actually getting elected. What have they ever done for the working man eh?Unlike Benn and Foot and Scargill and Corbyn, eh? All true to their principles and steadfast supporters of the common man. They are the sort you want in charge of the Labour movement. People who make you feel good about your principles while achieving f**k all.This is what the Left has always been. Certain they are right, and bewildered when only 20% of the public agree with them. Thinking politics is a romantic crusade, when what it actually demands above and beyond everything else is making sure you win before you can do anything. You'd rather a compromise Labour lose and watch the Tories scrape back in, than support people who, once in power, might actually help you.You don't get it because you're determined, as the Left always has been, to see the grubby, dirty process of actually winning power as a betrayal. If you can't have someone in opposition making you personally feel they agree with exactly what you want, you'll chuck your tits out of the pram.You just said Thatcher had resolve. That shows how little you know of the art of gaining power. Let me give you one little example.In 1979, right wing economists were saying the Tories should commit to doubling VAT if they won. Labour went to town trying to pin that policy on Thatcher. Sheffield vehemently denied that she planned to double VAT.Do you know what she did after she won? Increased VAT from 8% to 15% after the election. Because once you've won, you can then do what you believe to be right, and if you're clever, you can do it in a way that means you haven't lied.There's a whole bunch of Left whiners currently screaming at Starmer for rescinding the commitment to spend £28bn on green policies. They want that commitment because it's what they believe. What never dawns on them is that Sunak wants that commitment from Labour even more. Because it gives him a chance to paint Labour as fiscally irresponsible. Doesn't matter if that is fair or not. It's worked for them for 15 years and they would hammer that line day and night in an election campaign.Labour have just taken away that attack line. When they win in the Autumn, that doesn't mean they WON'T invest heavily in the green economy. But it does hamper the Tory campaign.That's what people on the Left don't get. They are ideological dreamers who think if you campaign on the right things, everyone will agree with you and vote for you. They don't get the dirty reality of real campaigning. Or the fact that you have to win first.Is BST assuring us that Labour will turn when they are elected? Any policies you think are first in line for that turn? Any that aren't?
Interesting to see them say they're still going to ban zero hours contracts. Why do their councils still use them then like here?Can't link to it but Doncaster council are advertising zero hours cleaners at the council even today.
Quote from: big fat yorkshire pudding on February 04, 2024, 11:07:40 amInteresting to see them say they're still going to ban zero hours contracts. Why do their councils still use them then like here?Can't link to it but Doncaster council are advertising zero hours cleaners at the council even today.Possibly because of 14 years of defunding has made it difficult to balance the books pud, but you'd know that. Still it's no excuse but you also know that what happens at council level is different to central government. This is I hope something labour will follow through with all the same.
Quote from: SydneyRover on February 04, 2024, 01:41:51 pmQuote from: big fat yorkshire pudding on February 04, 2024, 11:07:40 amInteresting to see them say they're still going to ban zero hours contracts. Why do their councils still use them then like here?Can't link to it but Doncaster council are advertising zero hours cleaners at the council even today.Possibly because of 14 years of defunding has made it difficult to balance the books pud, but you'd know that. Still it's no excuse but you also know that what happens at council level is different to central government. This is I hope something labour will follow through with all the same. If they believed it that much they would not do it, end of story.
Quote from: big fat yorkshire pudding on February 04, 2024, 03:56:07 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on February 04, 2024, 01:41:51 pmQuote from: big fat yorkshire pudding on February 04, 2024, 11:07:40 amInteresting to see them say they're still going to ban zero hours contracts. Why do their councils still use them then like here?Can't link to it but Doncaster council are advertising zero hours cleaners at the council even today.Possibly because of 14 years of defunding has made it difficult to balance the books pud, but you'd know that. Still it's no excuse but you also know that what happens at council level is different to central government. This is I hope something labour will follow through with all the same. If they believed it that much they would not do it, end of story.While on the subject of government (rather than opposition) have you asked your government to stop zero hours contracts pud?Supplementary question, what do you think of the proposed tax cuts that are being bandied about, would you prefer the money to be invested for growth instead, that's what many influential economists are saying?
Quote from: SydneyRover on February 04, 2024, 08:49:00 pmQuote from: big fat yorkshire pudding on February 04, 2024, 03:56:07 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on February 04, 2024, 01:41:51 pmQuote from: big fat yorkshire pudding on February 04, 2024, 11:07:40 amInteresting to see them say they're still going to ban zero hours contracts. Why do their councils still use them then like here?Can't link to it but Doncaster council are advertising zero hours cleaners at the council even today.Possibly because of 14 years of defunding has made it difficult to balance the books pud, but you'd know that. Still it's no excuse but you also know that what happens at council level is different to central government. This is I hope something labour will follow through with all the same. If they believed it that much they would not do it, end of story.While on the subject of government (rather than opposition) have you asked your government to stop zero hours contracts pud?Supplementary question, what do you think of the proposed tax cuts that are being bandied about, would you prefer the money to be invested for growth instead, that's what many influential economists are saying?No, I don't want to see an end to zero hours contracts so why would I? Just regulate them better.What are the tax cuts? I don't believe any are announced. The only one they've pretty much confirmed will change is the god awful child benefit 'high earner' tax that is very much overdue a change.