Water firms want bill rises to pay for repairs to leaks and spills

[SydneyRover]

You're a funny guy Albie, all there points that you raise and that everyone else keeps 'completely missing' all added up are the reasons that corbyn didn't get into office, twice, what a shame that this point is the one that you and your mates are completely missing aye?

[albie]

Stay on the topic Syd, and avoid the irrelevant drivel.
It is nothing whatsoever to do with Corbyn. The problems have been there since the original privatisation of the water industry.

We are talking about the investment strategies of private equity owners of an essential public service.

"Thames Water is collapsing because it has racked up nearly £19 billion of debt. In 1989 it started out with zero debt. It has spent the last 34 years profiting at our expense. The company has paid out £7.2 billion in dividends and in 2022 paid out £37 million of “internal dividends” to its parent company."...from https://weownit.org.uk/

Water is a natural monopoly, there is no market for consumers.
The English model of privatisation is very unusual, and Scotland retains water in the public sector.
90% of the world supplies water in public ownership.

Publicly owned Scottish Water has spent £72 more per household per year (35% more) than the English water companies.
If England had invested at this rate, an extra £28 billion would have gone into the infrastructure to tackle problems like leaks and sewage.

[SydneyRover]

Yes I know, when did you start complaining, whom do you expect to fix it and why?

[Not Now Kato]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ce55vp78n40o.amp
 
Seriously?

[Not Now Kato]

Meanwhile
 
https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/21/south-west-water-owner-service-dividend-devon
 
You couldn't make it up!

[scawsby steve]

So what will Keith do about this scandalous situation when he gets in? Take the water industry back into public hands, or let the greedy companies continue to fleece the public to provide huge dividends for the shareholders, whilst providing an appalling service?

I think we know the answer.

[SydneyRover]

So what will Keith do about this scandalous situation when he gets in? Take the water industry back into public hands, or let the greedy companies continue to fleece the public to provide huge dividends for the shareholders, whilst providing an appalling service?

I think we know the answer.

Wrong question Steve, what will the government do about this right now is a better one wouldn't you think, Albie is crying about debt and yet he like you wants to load it onto labour, wtf get real.

[albie]

No Syd, as I clearly explained in post 21 debt should remain with the companies who created it to inflate dividends.

The voices in your head are getting the upper hand again.

The Tories will only act if Thames go bankrupt when they still in government, otherwise they will wait it out.

Labour have a chance to set out a policy for change, but will not do so!

[ncRover]

Perhaps if there had been a new reservoir built in the last 30+ years to cope with increased demand then bills wouldn’t be so high?

[SydneyRover]

No Syd, as I clearly explained in post 21 debt should remain with the companies who created it to inflate dividends.

The voices in your head are getting the upper hand again.

The Tories will only act if Thames go bankrupt when they still in government, otherwise they will wait it out.

Labour have a chance to set out a policy for change, but will not do so!

Yes you clearly explained as always, but why put it all on the opposition as always, its the government that has the power.

I think you're crapping yourself that labour may win.

[drfchound]

No Syd, as I clearly explained in post 21 debt should remain with the companies who created it to inflate dividends.

The voices in your head are getting the upper hand again.

The Tories will only act if Thames go bankrupt when they still in government, otherwise they will wait it out.

Labour have a chance to set out a policy for change, but will not do so!

Yes you clearly explained as always, but why put it all on the opposition as always, its the government that has the power.

I think you're crapping yourself that labour may win.

You have done it again Syd.
“Labour may win”.
Are you now unsure about the great victory that you were predicting a few months ago?

[roverstillidie91]

Nationalise

[SydneyRover]

Nationalise

Yep, the old saying coming your way from the far left, nationalise the debt and privatise the profit

[scawsby steve]

Nationalise

Yep, the old saying coming your way from the far left, nationalise the debt and privatise the profit

Your hero, Keith, wants public ownership doesn't he?

Oh sorry, I keep forgetting. That was just for the Labour leadership.

[SydneyRover]

Nationalise

Yep, the old saying coming your way from the far left, nationalise the debt and privatise the profit

Your story Steve, give us the details

Your hero, Keith, wants public ownership doesn't he?

Oh sorry, I keep forgetting. That was just for the Labour leadership.

[Colin C No.3]

It’s about time they cleaned our local sewerage works up. It’s a right shit pit.

[roverstillidie91]

Nationalise

Yep, the old saying coming your way from the far left, nationalise the debt and privatise the profit

Your hero, Keith, wants public ownership doesn't he?

Oh sorry, I keep forgetting. That was just for the Labour leadership.

One of the water companies down south can't remember the name of the company.

Just let it go bankrupt and bring it back into public hands instead of the taxpayer bailing it out.

Cannot believe that in this day and age customers having to boil their water and having to hand out bottled water.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Nationalise

Yep, the old saying coming your way from the far left, nationalise the debt and privatise the profit

Your hero, Keith, wants public ownership doesn't he?

Oh sorry, I keep forgetting. That was just for the Labour leadership.

One of the water companies down south can't remember the name of the company.

Just let it go bankrupt and bring it back into public hands instead of the taxpayer bailing it out.

Cannot believe that in this day and age customers having to boil their water and having to hand out bottled water.

Just let it go bankrupt.....  How does that work? You do realise that when a company becomes insolvent there is a huge amount of cost to pay, you can't just ignore the debt. 

[roverstillidie91]

Nationalise

Yep, the old saying coming your way from the far left, nationalise the debt and privatise the profit

Your hero, Keith, wants public ownership doesn't he?

Oh sorry, I keep forgetting. That was just for the Labour leadership.

One of the water companies down south can't remember the name of the company.

Just let it go bankrupt and bring it back into public hands instead of the taxpayer bailing it out.

Cannot believe that in this day and age customers having to boil their water and having to hand out bottled water.

Just let it go bankrupt.....  How does that work? You do realise that when a company becomes insolvent there is a huge amount of cost to pay, you can't just ignore the debt. 

The companies debt. Not the taxpayers. Just renationalise it.

Why have they paid all these dividends to shareholders and not invested in the infrastructure?

But then expect the customers to pay for it.

[idler]

Exactly. A bonus or dividend should be met out of profits, not just awarded when you are losing money or failing.

[albie]

Still the bonuses flow in the water industry:
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/water-bosses-pocketed-100m-in-pay-and-bonuses-in-past-10-years-3125741

Despite this, both Blue and Red parties think a tweak or two to regulation will cut the mustard.
They are just about the only people who can't see (or don't want to see) the need for public ownership.

It's like wading through treacle!

[SydneyRover]

Still the bonuses flow in the water industry:
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/water-bosses-pocketed-100m-in-pay-and-bonuses-in-past-10-years-3125741

Despite this, both Blue and Red parties think a tweak or two to regulation will cut the mustard.
They are just about the only people who can't see (or don't want to see) the need for public ownership.

It's like wading through treacle!

maybe the greens can magic up the money?

[albie]

No money needed to bring water back into public ownership Syd.
It has been on here before, the options of how to do it.

They are in breach of their statutory obligations in relation to sewage discharges.
Instead of fining them (which is then passed to consumers), take a equity share for the public for every breach.
Once the public have 51%, they have control.

That is just one way...there are others!

[DonnyOsmond]

So what will Keith do about this scandalous situation when he gets in? Take the water industry back into public hands, or let the greedy companies continue to fleece the public to provide huge dividends for the shareholders, whilst providing an appalling service?

I think we know the answer.

But you're gonna vote for Reform or the Tories? Do you know what they'll do?!

[SydneyRover]

No money needed to bring water back into public ownership Syd.
It has been on here before, the options of how to do it.

They are in breach of their statutory obligations in relation to sewage discharges.
Instead of fining them (which is then passed to consumers), take a equity share for the public for every breach.
Once the public have 51%, they have control.

That is just one way...there are others!

Yes, maybe, but until the whole lot has been effectively audited it would be hard to move without compounding the problems I would have thought, think if the mess the trains have been left in.

[albie]

Syd,

I posted this before, but here you are for reference;
https://weownit.org.uk/public-ownership/water

The key part is
"If we gave the shareholders back what they put in (i.e. the equity value of the shares) it would cost just under £15 billion to buy back the water companies. We would save around £2.5 billion a year because we wouldn’t have to pay out shareholder dividends and borrowing costs are lower in the public sector. Bringing water into public ownership pays for itself in around 6 years on that basis."

But like I say, you can follow the link through to the shares option;
https://weownit.org.uk/act-now/take-shares-not-fines

So the means exist, what is lacking is the political will.

[SydneyRover]

Syd,

I posted this before, but here you are for reference;
https://weownit.org.uk/public-ownership/water

The key part is
"If we gave the shareholders back what they put in (i.e. the equity value of the shares) it would cost just under £15 billion to buy back the water companies. We would save around £2.5 billion a year because we wouldn’t have to pay out shareholder dividends and borrowing costs are lower in the public sector. Bringing water into public ownership pays for itself in around 6 years on that basis."

But like I say, you can follow the link through to the shares option;
https://weownit.org.uk/act-now/take-shares-not-fines

So the means exist, what is lacking is the political will.

political reality says otherwise Albie, if labour take on too much and don't deliver they'll be heading for a fall. I know all those with no skin in the game have plenty of ideas but this is a long game and it has to work. This isn't the same as taking over a company, stripping the assets and sacking the workforce.

14+ years of maladministration have left a mountain of work.

[albie]

Political reality says exactly the opposite Syd.

Look at who the owners of the water companies are, and how unusual it is for a monopoly provider of an essential public service to be allowed to offshore excess profits while failing to invest. Nowhere else does water the UK way.

Labour can do this without significant impact on the spending plans for other areas, and can reap a dividend in terms of the public accounts in short order.
It is achievable within a defined timetable, and is easily chalked up as a win in accordance with public opinion.

Failure to act promptly on key issues will lead to a widespread disillusion within 2 years.
This is the low hanging fruit, and the only reason not to do so is that your policy is compromised by donations from those who benefit from this cash cow.

[ravenrover]

Syd,

I posted this before, but here you are for reference;
https://weownit.org.uk/public-ownership/water

The key part is
"If we gave the shareholders back what they put in (i.e. the equity value of the shares) it would cost just under £15 billion to buy back the water companies. We would save around £2.5 billion a year because we wouldn’t have to pay out shareholder dividends and borrowing costs are lower in the public sector. Bringing water into public ownership pays for itself in around 6 years on that basis."

But like I say, you can follow the link through to the shares option;
https://weownit.org.uk/act-now/take-shares-not-fines

So the means exist, what is lacking is the political will.

political reality says otherwise Albie, if labour take on too much and don't deliver they'll be heading for a fall. I know all those with no skin in the game have plenty of ideas but this is a long game and it has to work. This isn't the same as taking over a company, stripping the assets and sacking the workforce.

14+ years of maladministration have left a mountain of work.

Syd Labour can't be heading for a fall, Gove says they are going to rig it to stay in power for perpetuity. If Gove says it it must be right......... or just bo!!ocks

[SydneyRover]

Political reality says exactly the opposite Syd.

Look at who the owners of the water companies are, and how unusual it is for a monopoly provider of an essential public service to be allowed to offshore excess profits while failing to invest. Nowhere else does water the UK way.

Labour can do this without significant impact on the spending plans for other areas, and can reap a dividend in terms of the public accounts in short order.
It is achievable within a defined timetable, and is easily chalked up as a win in accordance with public opinion.

Failure to act promptly on key issues will lead to a widespread disillusion within 2 years.
This is the low hanging fruit, and the only reason not to do so is that your policy is compromised by donations from those who benefit from this cash cow.

If it was so east to fix you'd reckon even the thickos in one of the tory governments would have fixed it just to save all the bad pr. As I said it's the quantity of work and money required that's the problem and his name is Starmer not Harry Potter.