Jeremy Hunt says Britain should be the most prosperous country in the world

[Bentley Bullet]

Billy boy, did you HONESTLY think I'd find evidence of my point by searching the media sites that you frequent?

Anybody, ANYBODY can give an opinion of what route to take when they are not in a position to make a final decision, after all, where's the pressure or come back, for that matter?

 It is no surprise that Captain Hindsight might have gotten the odd prediction right. So did I, and I know f**k all about pandemics, but I might not have put those forecasts into practice if it was my final decision. Besides that, there was a balance between lives and livelihoods to be made by the government.

In my opinion, Keir Starmer exploited his position by ignoring the effect that an early lockdown would have on the livelihoods of people for the popular and possibly ill-informed (in hindsight) view that an early lockdown should be applied to save lives. After all, the more livelihoods that were affected by the pandemic, the more popular the opposition (his party) would become.

By the way. Which media sites do you reckon I frequent?

Weighing up your contribution to this forum I'd guess...

Forest Hump?
Edward Penishands?
Debbie does Denaby?

[Filo]

By October/November 2020 many (not just a few headbangers) were sick to death of lockdowns and were going through the motions of safe distancing etc. Some people never even adhered to the first lockdown and worked through it; some even claimed furlough while still working.

People were becoming more non-conforming, putting the government under more pressure while deciding whether to put the country back into lockdown, which would have been an unpopular decision for many and possibly ignored enough to make a lockdown pointless.

.... And that was even without considering the lives versus livelihoods equation.

Employers claimed furlough, not employee’s!

And?

You are saying some people claimed furlough and still worked, how did they manage that, given Employers claimed it?

Self-employed?

Self employed weren’t eligible for Furlough

Which leads me to think you just made it up

[ravenrover]

As for getting bored not adhering to the rules........ .  But let's not get into Partygate again heh

[Not Now Kato]

By October/November 2020 many (not just a few headbangers) were sick to death of lockdowns and were going through the motions of safe distancing etc. Some people never even adhered to the first lockdown and worked through it; some even claimed furlough while still working.

People were becoming more non-conforming, putting the government under more pressure while deciding whether to put the country back into lockdown, which would have been an unpopular decision for many and possibly ignored enough to make a lockdown pointless.

.... And that was even without considering the lives versus livelihoods equation.

Employers claimed furlough, not employee’s!

And?

You are saying some people claimed furlough and still worked, how did they manage that, given Employers claimed it?

Self-employed?

Self employed weren’t eligible for Furlough

Which leads me to think you just made it up

No, he just believes what his enablers tell him, (substitute Sunak et-al for Trump in the following)....
 

 

[Bentley Bullet]

By October/November 2020 many (not just a few headbangers) were sick to death of lockdowns and were going through the motions of safe distancing etc. Some people never even adhered to the first lockdown and worked through it; some even claimed furlough while still working.

People were becoming more non-conforming, putting the government under more pressure while deciding whether to put the country back into lockdown, which would have been an unpopular decision for many and possibly ignored enough to make a lockdown pointless.

.... And that was even without considering the lives versus livelihoods equation.

Employers claimed furlough, not employee’s!

And?

You are saying some people claimed furlough and still worked, how did they manage that, given Employers claimed it?

Self-employed?

Self employed weren’t eligible for Furlough

Which leads me to think you just made it up

I asked the question, hence the question mark. They may not have qualified for furlough but instead qualified for a job retention scheme, which was also known as the furlough scheme.

HMRC says nearly 9% of the furlough scheme was fraudulently claimed or otherwise wrongly paid out in 2020.

[drfchound]

By October/November 2020 many (not just a few headbangers) were sick to death of lockdowns and were going through the motions of safe distancing etc. Some people never even adhered to the first lockdown and worked through it; some even claimed furlough while still working.

People were becoming more non-conforming, putting the government under more pressure while deciding whether to put the country back into lockdown, which would have been an unpopular decision for many and possibly ignored enough to make a lockdown pointless.

.... And that was even without considering the lives versus livelihoods equation.

Employers claimed furlough, not employee’s!

And?

You are saying some people claimed furlough and still worked, how did they manage that, given Employers claimed it?

Self-employed?

Self employed weren’t eligible for Furlough

Which leads me to think you just made it up

I asked the question, hence the question mark. They may not have qualified for furlough but instead qualified for a job retention scheme, which was also known as the furlough scheme.

HMRC says nearly 9% of the furlough scheme was fraudulently claimed or otherwise wrongly paid out in 2020.

I had a friend who had two businesses that he ran.
One was a limited company which he had with him and his wife as directors.
The other one was a plumbing and heating one in which he was officially self employed.
For the duration of furlough he claimed furlough money through the limited company but carried on doing the plumbing and heating work.

[Filo]

By October/November 2020 many (not just a few headbangers) were sick to death of lockdowns and were going through the motions of safe distancing etc. Some people never even adhered to the first lockdown and worked through it; some even claimed furlough while still working.

People were becoming more non-conforming, putting the government under more pressure while deciding whether to put the country back into lockdown, which would have been an unpopular decision for many and possibly ignored enough to make a lockdown pointless.

.... And that was even without considering the lives versus livelihoods equation.

Employers claimed furlough, not employee’s!

And?

You are saying some people claimed furlough and still worked, how did they manage that, given Employers claimed it?

Self-employed?

Self employed weren’t eligible for Furlough

Which leads me to think you just made it up

I asked the question, hence the question mark. They may not have qualified for furlough but instead qualified for a job retention scheme, which was also known as the furlough scheme.

HMRC says nearly 9% of the furlough scheme was fraudulently claimed or otherwise wrongly paid out in 2020.

Wrong again the self employed could not claim from the Job retention scheme, however, I’ll help you out, they could claim a grant if they had been self employed for the previous 2 years, depending on circumstances

[Bentley Bullet]

By October/November 2020 many (not just a few headbangers) were sick to death of lockdowns and were going through the motions of safe distancing etc. Some people never even adhered to the first lockdown and worked through it; some even claimed furlough while still working.

People were becoming more non-conforming, putting the government under more pressure while deciding whether to put the country back into lockdown, which would have been an unpopular decision for many and possibly ignored enough to make a lockdown pointless.

.... And that was even without considering the lives versus livelihoods equation.

Employers claimed furlough, not employee’s!

And?

You are saying some people claimed furlough and still worked, how did they manage that, given Employers claimed it?

Self-employed?

Self employed weren’t eligible for Furlough

Which leads me to think you just made it up

No, he just believes what his enablers tell him, (substitute Sunak et-al for Trump in the following)....
 

 

Kato, now's not the time to be silly. Not now Kato, not now.

[Bentley Bullet]

By October/November 2020 many (not just a few headbangers) were sick to death of lockdowns and were going through the motions of safe distancing etc. Some people never even adhered to the first lockdown and worked through it; some even claimed furlough while still working.

People were becoming more non-conforming, putting the government under more pressure while deciding whether to put the country back into lockdown, which would have been an unpopular decision for many and possibly ignored enough to make a lockdown pointless.

.... And that was even without considering the lives versus livelihoods equation.

Employers claimed furlough, not employee’s!

And?

You are saying some people claimed furlough and still worked, how did they manage that, given Employers claimed it?

Self-employed?

Self employed weren’t eligible for Furlough

Which leads me to think you just made it up

I asked the question, hence the question mark. They may not have qualified for furlough but instead qualified for a job retention scheme, which was also known as the furlough scheme.

HMRC says nearly 9% of the furlough scheme was fraudulently claimed or otherwise wrongly paid out in 2020.

Wrong again the self employed could not claim from the Job retention scheme, however, I’ll help you out, they could claim a grant if they had been self employed for the previous 2 years, depending on circumstances

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/uk/consumer-advice/money/a35152622/furlough-rules-lockdown/

[Bentley Bullet]

By October/November 2020 many (not just a few headbangers) were sick to death of lockdowns and were going through the motions of safe distancing etc. Some people never even adhered to the first lockdown and worked through it; some even claimed furlough while still working.

People were becoming more non-conforming, putting the government under more pressure while deciding whether to put the country back into lockdown, which would have been an unpopular decision for many and possibly ignored enough to make a lockdown pointless.

.... And that was even without considering the lives versus livelihoods equation.

Employers claimed furlough, not employee’s!

And?

You are saying some people claimed furlough and still worked, how did they manage that, given Employers claimed it?

Self-employed?

Self employed weren’t eligible for Furlough

Which leads me to think you just made it up

You are led to believe all sorts of shite on this forum, but this ain't one of 'em owd lad.

[Not Now Kato]

By October/November 2020 many (not just a few headbangers) were sick to death of lockdowns and were going through the motions of safe distancing etc. Some people never even adhered to the first lockdown and worked through it; some even claimed furlough while still working.

People were becoming more non-conforming, putting the government under more pressure while deciding whether to put the country back into lockdown, which would have been an unpopular decision for many and possibly ignored enough to make a lockdown pointless.

.... And that was even without considering the lives versus livelihoods equation.

Employers claimed furlough, not employee’s!

And?

You are saying some people claimed furlough and still worked, how did they manage that, given Employers claimed it?

Self-employed?

Self employed weren’t eligible for Furlough

Which leads me to think you just made it up

No, he just believes what his enablers tell him, (substitute Sunak et-al for Trump in the following)....
 

 

Kato, now's not the time to be silly. Not now Kato, not now.

Only one person being silly on this thread BB, and that's you. 

[Bentley Bullet]

NNK, You may not think I'm right, but that's not the point.

The point is I am right.

[scawsby steve]

Filo and NNK. A member of my family claimed £27000 in furlough whilst self-employed. That's a fact.

BB is right on this. You're both wrong.

[Filo]

Filo and NNK. A member of my family claimed £27000 in furlough whilst self-employed. That's a fact.

BB is right on this. You're both wrong.

It was a grant, not Furlough, two totally separate schemes

[Bentley Bullet]

I know someone who lives in Scotland who is self-employed and doubled his wages in payouts during COVID.

The truth is out there if you stop burying your head in The Guardian and the likes and get out more.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I know someone who lives in Scotland who is self-employed and doubled his wages in payouts during COVID.

The truth is out there if you stop burying your head in The Guardian and the likes and get out more.

Presumably you've reported him, as it wasn't possible to do that without breaking the law.

[Bentley Bullet]

Filo and NNK. A member of my family claimed £27000 in furlough whilst self-employed. That's a fact.

BB is right on this. You're both wrong.

It was a grant, not Furlough, two totally separate schemes

The actual definition of furlough is the suspension or discharge of a worker or workers on account of economic conditions or shortage of work, especially when temporary. Technically, payment was given to those who had been furloughed, so it could be claimed that NOBODY was paid furlough, if one were to be picky, like you are being.

[Bentley Bullet]

I know someone who lives in Scotland who is self-employed and doubled his wages in payouts during COVID.

The truth is out there if you stop burying your head in The Guardian and the likes and get out more.

Presumably you've reported him, as it wasn't possible to do that without breaking the law.

Yeah, but they told me I was wrong because nobody self-employed received 'furlough.'

[BillyStubbsTears]

I know someone who lives in Scotland who is self-employed and doubled his wages in payouts during COVID.

The truth is out there if you stop burying your head in The Guardian and the likes and get out more.

Presumably you've reported him, as it wasn't possible to do that without breaking the law.

Yeah, but they told me I was wrong because nobody self-employed received 'furlough.'

So you didn't then...

[Filo]

Filo and NNK. A member of my family claimed £27000 in furlough whilst self-employed. That's a fact.

BB is right on this. You're both wrong.

It was a grant, not Furlough, two totally separate schemes

The actual definition of furlough is the suspension or discharge of a worker or workers on account of economic conditions or shortage of work, especially when temporary. Technically, payment was given to those who had been furloughed, so it could be claimed that NOBODY was paid furlough, if one were to be picky, like you are being.

You can wriggle on that hook all you want, and twist words all you want, but you are wrong, plain and simple, anyone with an ounce of intelligence can see you for what you are, aided and abetted by your faithful canine

[Not Now Kato]

Filo and NNK. A member of my family claimed £27000 in furlough whilst self-employed. That's a fact.

BB is right on this. You're both wrong.

My post was in relation to all BB's posts on this thread.  However, in the instance you've just posted on, you're wrong as well as BB.
 
What your family member claimed was a Grant from the Self-Employment Income Support Scheme - nothing at all to do with Furlough!  The scheme also provided for the self employed to continue to work whilst they waited for the grant to be approved.
 
Just saying.
 
 

[Bentley Bullet]

Filo and NNK. A member of my family claimed £27000 in furlough whilst self-employed. That's a fact.

BB is right on this. You're both wrong.

It was a grant, not Furlough, two totally separate schemes

The actual definition of furlough is the suspension or discharge of a worker or workers on account of economic conditions or shortage of work, especially when temporary. Technically, payment was given to those who had been furloughed, so it could be claimed that NOBODY was paid furlough, if one were to be picky, like you are being.

You can wriggle on that hook all you want, and twist words all you want, but you are wrong, plain and simple, anyone with an ounce of intelligence can see you for what you are, aided and abetted by your faithful canine

I haven't twisted any words! I've copied and pasted the definition of furlough because YOU made such a big song and dance about the use of the word, in the hope it would be a game changer. The truth is, whatever the correct word for the handout of cash to the self-employed was here nor there in relevance to the argument.

Now THAT is the truth, and anyone with an ounce of intelligence will know it is.

[Bentley Bullet]

Filo and NNK. A member of my family claimed £27000 in furlough whilst self-employed. That's a fact.

BB is right on this. You're both wrong.

My post was in relation to all BB's posts on this thread.  However, in the instance you've just posted on, you're wrong as well as BB.
 
What your family member claimed was a Grant from the Self-Employment Income Support Scheme - nothing at all to do with Furlough!  The scheme also provided for the self employed to continue to work whilst they waited for the grant to be approved.
 
Just saying.
 
 

I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer i gave in post 76.

[Not Now Kato]

Filo and NNK. A member of my family claimed £27000 in furlough whilst self-employed. That's a fact.

BB is right on this. You're both wrong.

My post was in relation to all BB's posts on this thread.  However, in the instance you've just posted on, you're wrong as well as BB.
 
What your family member claimed was a Grant from the Self-Employment Income Support Scheme - nothing at all to do with Furlough!  The scheme also provided for the self employed to continue to work whilst they waited for the grant to be approved.
 
Just saying.
 
 

I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer i gave in post 76.

You do seem to struggle with reality BB.  For the record.... There were two schemes in operation during the pandemic....
 
1. The Job Retention Scheme which was the one normally referred to by the term 'furlough'. This was aimed at companies to enable them to, as its name suggests, retain employees on the payroll; with the Government paying a percentage of each employees salary to the employer. It was the responsibility of the employer to make up the remainder of each employee's wages and pay them accordingly.
 
2. The Self-Employment Income Support Scheme.  This came later and was aimed specifically, as its name suggests, at the self employed, to enable them to remain in business; and was in the form of a grant based on a percentage of the businesses past tax returns/profits with a fixed cap. This was never known as furlough and was managed completely separate of it.
 

 

[SydneyRover]

I'm shocked that bb who is not short of criticising anyone for anything that differs from his extremely changeable and reversible outpourings could stand by and allow a criminal to defraud his fellow citizens. No better than the tories I say.

[SydneyRover]

Stop being silly or I'll just ignore you. I've NEVER, EVER been against lockdowns, although I understood the difficulties involved in deciding when to start/end them without hindsight. Some people were, and still are against lockdowns of any duration and were giving the government dogs abuse for implementing them. Some people still talk about them being some form of government control!

It all boils down to opinions, and not everyone agrees with yours, or mine for that matter. It was a desperate situation in which the government couldn't be right in everyone's eyes. Some people even sought political smarty points, like you did.

I bet if another virus (God help us) comes along when your great leader Starmer (God help us) is PM you'll back him to the bloody hilt!

Your hero will be able to explain what the hell he followed shortly, victims, their rels and friends I would hazard a guess can't wait to hear it.

''You can’t handle the truth, Johnson will tell the Covid inquiry: a bit rich from a man who can’t recognise it''

This bit is a gem ''It seems very odd to see think-pieces decrying the “hindsight” of the present moment, given that all the criticisms of the government of the day were said and written while it was happening, and by many people''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/05/boris-johnson-covid-inquiry-prime-minister

Vote tory .......... or obfuscate

[Bentley Bullet]

Filo and NNK. A member of my family claimed £27000 in furlough whilst self-employed. That's a fact.

BB is right on this. You're both wrong.

My post was in relation to all BB's posts on this thread.  However, in the instance you've just posted on, you're wrong as well as BB.
 
What your family member claimed was a Grant from the Self-Employment Income Support Scheme - nothing at all to do with Furlough!  The scheme also provided for the self employed to continue to work whilst they waited for the grant to be approved.
 
Just saying.
 
 

I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer i gave in post 76.

You do seem to struggle with reality BB.  For the record.... There were two schemes in operation during the pandemic....
 
1. The Job Retention Scheme which was the one normally referred to by the term 'furlough'. This was aimed at companies to enable them to, as its name suggests, retain employees on the payroll; with the Government paying a percentage of each employees salary to the employer. It was the responsibility of the employer to make up the remainder of each employee's wages and pay them accordingly.
 
2. The Self-Employment Income Support Scheme.  This came later and was aimed specifically, as its name suggests, at the self employed, to enable them to remain in business; and was in the form of a grant based on a percentage of the businesses past tax returns/profits with a fixed cap. This was never known as furlough and was managed completely separate of it.
 

 

Kato,
Every bit of what you have said above has been said before on this thread, some of it by me! I actually conceded that the correct title of the cash handed out to the self-employed may not officially have been called "furlough", but that doesn't by any means mean that the argument is lost. The point is, according to HMRC nearly 9% of the money handed out was fraudulently claimed or otherwise wrongly paid out in 2020.

That figure is not exclusive to the self-employed, but Filo's obsession with the word "furlough" made it seem like it was.

Filo chose a technicality involving one word as a distraction to divert the whole point of the argument, in the hope that people like you would follow that diversion.

[Filo]

Filo and NNK. A member of my family claimed £27000 in furlough whilst self-employed. That's a fact.

BB is right on this. You're both wrong.

My post was in relation to all BB's posts on this thread.  However, in the instance you've just posted on, you're wrong as well as BB.
 
What your family member claimed was a Grant from the Self-Employment Income Support Scheme - nothing at all to do with Furlough!  The scheme also provided for the self employed to continue to work whilst they waited for the grant to be approved.
 
Just saying.
 
 

I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer i gave in post 76.

You do seem to struggle with reality BB.  For the record.... There were two schemes in operation during the pandemic....
 
1. The Job Retention Scheme which was the one normally referred to by the term 'furlough'. This was aimed at companies to enable them to, as its name suggests, retain employees on the payroll; with the Government paying a percentage of each employees salary to the employer. It was the responsibility of the employer to make up the remainder of each employee's wages and pay them accordingly.
 
2. The Self-Employment Income Support Scheme.  This came later and was aimed specifically, as its name suggests, at the self employed, to enable them to remain in business; and was in the form of a grant based on a percentage of the businesses past tax returns/profits with a fixed cap. This was never known as furlough and was managed completely separate of it.
 

 

Kato,
Every bit of what you have said above has been said before on this thread, some of it by me! I actually conceded that the correct title of the cash handed out to the self-employed may not officially have been called "furlough", but that doesn't by any means mean that the argument is lost. The point is, according to HMRC nearly 9% of the money handed out was fraudulently claimed or otherwise wrongly paid out in 2020.

That figure is not exclusive to the self-employed, but Filo's obsession with the word "furlough" made it seem like it was.

Filo chose a technicality involving one word as a distraction to divert the whole point of the argument, in the hope that people like you would follow that diversion.

Wrong again, I pointed it out because it was misleading, done deliberately to try and back your point up

[Bentley Bullet]

No, it wasn't done deliberately! Why would that be necessary? I know from experience that there are one or two people on here who like to divert the route of threads as a form of distraction, just like you have done this time.

How about getting back on track?

Filo, do you disagree with the government's claims and the personal knowledge of people on this thread that money was fraudulently claimed during the pandemic?

[Filo]

No, it wasn't done deliberately! Why would that be necessary? I know from experience that there are one or two people on here who like to divert the route of threads as a form of distraction, just like you have done this time.

How about getting back on track?

Filo, do you disagree with the government's claims and the personal knowledge of people on this thread that money was fraudulently claimed during the pandemic?

I neither disagree or agree, I was just pointing out the inaccuracies in your post, I’ve kept out of the political stuff for a while now, mainly because people like you end up twisting things to suit your agenda, just has you have done in this thread, I’m back out now thanks, enjoy