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Quote from: Bentley Bullet on December 04, 2023, 08:59:21 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on December 04, 2023, 08:53:18 pmBB.Go on. Talk me through how the Opposition hindered the Johnson Government's handling of COVID. I'm all ears.BST, use your ears to ask someone to find you the Youtube channel, and type in Captain Hindsight Starmer and Covid. Meanwhile, if you can answer just one of my questions put to you on this thread I'll be ever so grateful. Oh no! BB has refused the fence. Just when he was charging down the home strait.There was me thinking you must have a dossier full of examples of the Opposition hindering Johnson's handling of COVID, and that I must be misunderstanding how our Parliament works when the Govt has nearly twice as many MPs as the official.Opposition. Instead you send me off to search for someone else's opinion. Amazing how shy you get in these circumstances.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on December 04, 2023, 08:53:18 pmBB.Go on. Talk me through how the Opposition hindered the Johnson Government's handling of COVID. I'm all ears.BST, use your ears to ask someone to find you the Youtube channel, and type in Captain Hindsight Starmer and Covid. Meanwhile, if you can answer just one of my questions put to you on this thread I'll be ever so grateful.
BB.Go on. Talk me through how the Opposition hindered the Johnson Government's handling of COVID. I'm all ears.
There's some great debating techniques going on from the Tories here.Waving thier little wrinkled maggots about an phishing.Phil Neal and Graham Taylor style.What a pair of Kitsons they were.
They didn't suggest many alternative policies! A lot of them were already in place and Starmer and co jumped on the bandwagon claiming they were their ideas! https://theweek.com/keir-starmer/951591/is-keir-starmer-becoming-captain-hindsight-on-covid-restrictions
Billy boy, did you HONESTLY think I'd find evidence of my point by searching the media sites that you frequent? Anybody, ANYBODY can give an opinion of what route to take when they are not in a position to make a final decision, after all, where's the pressure or come back, for that matter? It is no surprise that Captain Hindsight might have gotten the odd prediction right. So did I, and I know f**k all about pandemics, but I might not have put those forecasts into practice if it was my final decision. Besides that, there was a balance between lives and livelihoods to be made by the government.In my opinion, Keir Starmer exploited his position by ignoring the effect that an early lockdown would have on the livelihoods of people for the popular and possibly ill-informed (in hindsight) view that an early lockdown should be applied to save lives. After all, the more livelihoods that were affected by the pandemic, the more popular the opposition (his party) would become.
I can understand some people being suckered in to support Tory plans and promises, but defending what they've done by pretending they've been unlucky? A bit like the drunk driver blaming the brick wall for not getting out of the way.
So, we've learned from the pandemic that we can get a balance between lives and livelihoods bang on, in hindsight. We've also learned that the opposition party can gain favour by going along with the popular (uninformed) opinion of the public to gain political smarty points.
Stop being silly or I'll just ignore you. I've NEVER, EVER been against lockdowns, although I understood the difficulties involved in deciding when to start/end them without hindsight. Some people were, and still are against lockdowns of any duration and were giving the government dogs abuse for implementing them. Some people still talk about them being some form of government control!It all boils down to opinions, and not everyone agrees with yours, or mine for that matter. It was a desperate situation in which the government couldn't be right in everyone's eyes. Some people even sought political smarty points, like you did.I bet if another virus (God help us) comes along when your great leader Starmer (God help us) is PM you'll back him to the bloody hilt!
By October/November 2020 many (not just a few headbangers) were sick to death of lockdowns and were going through the motions of safe distancing etc. Some people never even adhered to the first lockdown and worked through it; some even claimed furlough while still working. People were becoming more non-conforming, putting the government under more pressure while deciding whether to put the country back into lockdown, which would have been an unpopular decision for many and possibly ignored enough to make a lockdown pointless. .... And that was even without considering the lives versus livelihoods equation.
Quote from: Bentley Bullet on December 05, 2023, 01:23:18 pmBy October/November 2020 many (not just a few headbangers) were sick to death of lockdowns and were going through the motions of safe distancing etc. Some people never even adhered to the first lockdown and worked through it; some even claimed furlough while still working. People were becoming more non-conforming, putting the government under more pressure while deciding whether to put the country back into lockdown, which would have been an unpopular decision for many and possibly ignored enough to make a lockdown pointless. .... And that was even without considering the lives versus livelihoods equation.Employers claimed furlough, not employee’s!
Quote from: Filo on December 05, 2023, 01:34:49 pmQuote from: Bentley Bullet on December 05, 2023, 01:23:18 pmBy October/November 2020 many (not just a few headbangers) were sick to death of lockdowns and were going through the motions of safe distancing etc. Some people never even adhered to the first lockdown and worked through it; some even claimed furlough while still working. People were becoming more non-conforming, putting the government under more pressure while deciding whether to put the country back into lockdown, which would have been an unpopular decision for many and possibly ignored enough to make a lockdown pointless. .... And that was even without considering the lives versus livelihoods equation.Employers claimed furlough, not employee’s! And?
Quote from: Bentley Bullet on December 05, 2023, 01:36:38 pmQuote from: Filo on December 05, 2023, 01:34:49 pmQuote from: Bentley Bullet on December 05, 2023, 01:23:18 pmBy October/November 2020 many (not just a few headbangers) were sick to death of lockdowns and were going through the motions of safe distancing etc. Some people never even adhered to the first lockdown and worked through it; some even claimed furlough while still working. People were becoming more non-conforming, putting the government under more pressure while deciding whether to put the country back into lockdown, which would have been an unpopular decision for many and possibly ignored enough to make a lockdown pointless. .... And that was even without considering the lives versus livelihoods equation.Employers claimed furlough, not employee’s! And?You are saying some people claimed furlough and still worked, how did they manage that, given Employers claimed it?
Quote from: Bentley Bullet on December 05, 2023, 01:23:18 pmBy October/November 2020 many (not just a few headbangers) were sick to death of lockdowns and were going through the motions of safe distancing etc. Some people never even adhered to the first lockdown and worked through it; some even claimed furlough while still working. People were becoming more non-conforming, putting the government under more pressure while deciding whether to put the country back into lockdown, which would have been an unpopular decision for many and possibly ignored enough to make a lockdown pointless. .... And that was even without considering the lives versus livelihoods equation.Once again, there WASN'T a "lives vs livelihood" equation. It's your inability to see this that is the really scary thing. I don't know how many times it has to be spelled out for you, but the fact is that delaying lockdown and letting the virus spread further had the dual effect of BOTH killing more people, AND meaning that when we did eventually have to lockdown, the lockdown was longer, harder and more economically damaging than it would have been if we'd locked down earlier.That's an established fact. The fact that you simply refuse to engage with it, because you are emotionally committed to not countenancing any criticism of Johnson's policy makes me wonder if you';re actually Nadine Dorries in disguise?