General Election

[River Don]

“And talking of getting Tory proposals analysed. Fraser Nelson, editor of the Spectator (which generally supports the Conservatives, but not slavishly) has published a blog pointing out that, if you look at how the tax burden is set to rise over the next four years, and then convert that into a tax increase per household figure using the same four-year cumulative counting method used by the Tories when costing Labour’s plans then you wil find the Tories are raising taxes by £3,000 per household.”

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/on-sunaks-maths-tories-will-lift-taxes-by-3000-per-household/

[Bristol Red Rover]

Do you want to share your opinion, hound, on a public figure engaging in deliberate deception of the public with the intention of causing them mistakenly to vote for him?

In my opinion, all politicians use anything they can get away with.

They need to be held accountable to what they commit to by more than a vote 5 years down the line, and for truth twisting and lies it should be very serious, imprisonable.

At least lets have a sin bin system. eg get caught lying and 18 months in the sin bin, no voting, and a fine of 50% of your income (all income Rishi). Breaking commitments and 6 months in there, 10% of total income fine. Without doing something serious about it, just like we're all subject to, then nothing will change, in fact it will get far worse.

[River Don]

So hands up who thought Sunak was suggesting the Labour tax bombshell would supposedly cost us £2,000 a year?...

Not the 4 year period he forgot to mention.

 Sunak wanted to make it all about tax, Sky News is obliging

the tax rises we've all experienced under this Conservative government since 2019. They amount, all told, to an average of around £3,000 a year per household or, if we grit our teeth and tot it up as the Tories did in their dossier, over £13,000 over the course of the parliament. Which rather dwarfs that £2,000 figure.


https://news.sky.com/story/both-parties-are-in-fantasy-land-but-sunaks-tax-attack-on-labour-is-rich-given-what-his-government-has-cost-voters-13148314

[i_ateallthepies]

If that really was the case wouldn't you have thought that they all would be up to tricks like his?

[danumdon]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckmm6nexlngo

What a farce. That ruling just opens up leafleting and posters to all sorts of abuse.

How many people actually read the leaflets? i'd imagine most file straight into the recycling bin.

[danumdon]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but all the Tories can do to discredit Labour is to make claims about what Starmer may or may not do - in the future.  Conjecture.

Labour has the advantage of highlighting Tory “achievements” over the last 14 years, which can be fact checked. 

Labour may or may not be any better, that remains to be seen.  But surely they can’t be any worse.

I could introduce you to a couple of my ex work colleagues who thought differently differently after they retired and drew their work pensions.

[IDM]

Do you want to share your opinion, hound, on a public figure engaging in deliberate deception of the public with the intention of causing them mistakenly to vote for him?

In my opinion, all politicians use anything they can get away with.

Like making up tax rises.?

[Donnywolf]

Blame Pinocchio Johnson . Politicians have lied throughout history and despite allegations on here to the contrary I have not been around that long

So they lie, spin, go off topic,  answer a question with a question and / or play for time in interviews.

However Johnson a serial liar sacked for lying took it all to new heights. No Parties for a start , but if there were all the rules were followed

He lies and lies so MUCH I even doubt it when he claims he had COVID and was close to dying. If he was would he risk a relapse by attending all the Parties he MUST have gone to

He's let a genie out of its bottle and they are mostly all at it now with impunity.

That Coutinho woman facing them down this morning saying Sunak didn't lie with his 2k claim and it was heresay.

Martin Lewis said straight to her " but I'm looking at THE letter itself which says you and he are and were not telling the truth"

However she batted on saying Sunak was in the right despite him telling her " I have the Letter here in my hand in black and white"

What people will do to get , get promoted , get prime jobs eh ?

[drfchound]

Blame Pinocchio Johnson . Politicians have lied throughout history and despite allegations on here to the contrary I have not been around that long

So they lie, spin, go off topic,  answer a question with a question and / or play for time in interviews.

However Johnson a serial liar sacked for lying took it all to new heights. No Parties for a start , but if there were all the rules were followed

He lies and lies so MUCH I even doubt it when he claims he had COVID and was close to dying. If he was would he risk a relapse by attending all the Parties he MUST have gone to

He's let a genie out of its bottle and they are mostly all at it now with impunity.

That Coutinho woman facing them down this morning saying Sunak didn't lie with his 2k claim and it was heresay.

Martin Lewis said straight to her " but I'm looking at THE letter itself which says you and he are and were not telling the truth"

However she batted on saying Sunak was in the right despite him telling her " I have the Letter here in my hand in black and white"

What people will do to get , get promoted , get prime jobs eh ?

Wolfie, we agree on some stuff in off topic then.
I somehow doubt whether you will be questioned on your (highlighted in red) views even though it is much along the lines of what I suggested earlier.

[SydneyRover]

Blame Pinocchio Johnson . Politicians have lied throughout history and despite allegations on here to the contrary I have not been around that long

So they lie, spin, go off topic,  answer a question with a question and / or play for time in interviews.

However Johnson a serial liar sacked for lying took it all to new heights. No Parties for a start , but if there were all the rules were followed

He lies and lies so MUCH I even doubt it when he claims he had COVID and was close to dying. If he was would he risk a relapse by attending all the Parties he MUST have gone to

He's let a genie out of its bottle and they are mostly all at it now with impunity.

That Coutinho woman facing them down this morning saying Sunak didn't lie with his 2k claim and it was heresay.

Martin Lewis said straight to her " but I'm looking at THE letter itself which says you and he are and were not telling the truth"

However she batted on saying Sunak was in the right despite him telling her " I have the Letter here in my hand in black and white"

What people will do to get , get promoted , get prime jobs eh ?

What appears to be different is that a lie is actually being called for what it is, a lie. I wonder if lies will now be called that in the HoC?

[ncRover]

Sounds like the Conservatives are in full internal meltdown.

Latest yougov poll has Reform only 2 points behind them.

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckmm6nexlngo

What a farce. That ruling just opens up leafleting and posters to all sorts of abuse.

How many people actually read the leaflets? i'd imagine most file straight into the recycling bin.

That's exactly the bloody point!

People will see these posters or leaflets and think "oh, Largan is the Labour candidate".

Nobody is going to look at the tiny font writing in the corner saying the poster or leaflet is from the Tories.

That is precisely the reason why it's scandalous that someone can do this.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Blame Pinocchio Johnson . Politicians have lied throughout history and despite allegations on here to the contrary I have not been around that long

So they lie, spin, go off topic,  answer a question with a question and / or play for time in interviews.

However Johnson a serial liar sacked for lying took it all to new heights. No Parties for a start , but if there were all the rules were followed

He lies and lies so MUCH I even doubt it when he claims he had COVID and was close to dying. If he was would he risk a relapse by attending all the Parties he MUST have gone to

He's let a genie out of its bottle and they are mostly all at it now with impunity.

That Coutinho woman facing them down this morning saying Sunak didn't lie with his 2k claim and it was heresay.

Martin Lewis said straight to her " but I'm looking at THE letter itself which says you and he are and were not telling the truth"

However she batted on saying Sunak was in the right despite him telling her " I have the Letter here in my hand in black and white"

What people will do to get , get promoted , get prime jobs eh ?

Wolf.

If you can find me one example of a senior politician before 2010 lying openly about a matter of unarguable objective truth for personal or party gain, and not being called out on it, I'll send a hundred quid to any charity you like.

[Ldr]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckmm6nexlngo

What a farce. That ruling just opens up leafleting and posters to all sorts of abuse.

How many people actually read the leaflets? i'd imagine most file straight into the recycling bin.

That's exactly the bloody point!

People will see these posters or leaflets and think "oh, Largan is the Labour candidate".

Nobody is going to look at the tiny font writing in the corner saying the poster or leaflet is from the Tories.

That is precisely the reason why it's scandalous that someone can do this.

If only they printed the candidate name and party on the ballot paper eh?

[Ldr]

Or are you suggesting Labour voters are muppets who can’t understand a ballot paper?

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckmm6nexlngo

What a farce. That ruling just opens up leafleting and posters to all sorts of abuse.

How many people actually read the leaflets? i'd imagine most file straight into the recycling bin.

That's exactly the bloody point!

People will see these posters or leaflets and think "oh, Largan is the Labour candidate".

Nobody is going to look at the tiny font writing in the corner saying the poster or leaflet is from the Tories.

That is precisely the reason why it's scandalous that someone can do this.

If only they printed the candidate name and party on the ballot paper eh?

Yes but the point is that this is designed to confuse people.

Like the candidate in a previous election that put himself forward as a Literal Democrat and won a big chunk of votes.

You assume everyone pays perfect attention in a polling booth do you?

Bigger question is: if you aren't trying to deceive people, why the f**k do this?

[Ldr]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckmm6nexlngo

What a farce. That ruling just opens up leafleting and posters to all sorts of abuse.

How many people actually read the leaflets? i'd imagine most file straight into the recycling bin.

That's exactly the bloody point!

People will see these posters or leaflets and think "oh, Largan is the Labour candidate".

Nobody is going to look at the tiny font writing in the corner saying the poster or leaflet is from the Tories.

That is precisely the reason why it's scandalous that someone can do this.

If only they printed the candidate name and party on the ballot paper eh?

Yes but the point is that this is designed to confuse people.

Like the candidate in a previous election that put himself forward as a Literal Democrat and won a big chunk of votes.

You assume everyone pays perfect attention in a polling booth do you?

Bigger question is: if you aren't trying to deceive people, why the f**k do this?

For the record I think its out of order,

I also think if you don’t pay attention in a polling station with something as important as voting you’re a thick runt who deserves everything they get

[BillyStubbsTears]

Some people don't pay close attention and can be deceived.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devon_and_East_Plymouth_(European_Parliament_constituency)

That's why we have laws to prevent electoral deception. This shit show demonstrates there's a loophole that obe amoral Kitson is prepared to exploit.

[i_ateallthepies]

The problem with that Ldr is that it is everyone else who voted correctly for their chosen candidate that is placed at risk of undeservedly getting the candidate they didn't want.

[drfchound]

In truth pies, most people who vote don’t get the candidate they wanted, unless it is a landslide victory of course.

[albie]

Blame Pinocchio Johnson . Politicians have lied throughout history and despite allegations on here to the contrary I have not been around that long

So they lie, spin, go off topic,  answer a question with a question and / or play for time in interviews.

However Johnson a serial liar sacked for lying took it all to new heights. No Parties for a start , but if there were all the rules were followed

He lies and lies so MUCH I even doubt it when he claims he had COVID and was close to dying. If he was would he risk a relapse by attending all the Parties he MUST have gone to

He's let a genie out of its bottle and they are mostly all at it now with impunity.

That Coutinho woman facing them down this morning saying Sunak didn't lie with his 2k claim and it was heresay.

Martin Lewis said straight to her " but I'm looking at THE letter itself which says you and he are and were not telling the truth"

However she batted on saying Sunak was in the right despite him telling her " I have the Letter here in my hand in black and white"

What people will do to get , get promoted , get prime jobs eh ?

Wolf.

If you can find me one example of a senior politician before 2010 lying openly about a matter of unarguable objective truth for personal or party gain, and not being called out on it, I'll send a hundred quid to any charity you like.

Well, Blair, Campbell and Co on the Iraq war would be a good place to start...would it not?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie.

Read what I said.

[SydneyRover]

''Jeremy Hunt has warned the Conservatives that elections are won from the centre ground, amid fears that the party could lurch to the right in response to Nigel Farage’s return to frontline politics.

In an interview with the Guardian, the chancellor suggested the party must remain a “broad church” despite concerns that Reform UK could cost the Tories as many as 60 seats at the general election''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/05/jeremy-hunt-warns-against-tory-lurch-to-right-reform-farage

It's a little late in the day JH, this should have been tabled quite a few leaders ago.

[albie]

I have read what you said.

Blair and Campbell "sexed up" the dodgy dossier to justify military action in support of the US.
The Labour Party in the HoC backed up that decision, despite ample evidence to the contrary.

Blair was desperate to court US favour, and that was the political gain he sought to achieve.
They were called out by many at the time, including UN weapons inspectors.
The best available evidence contradicted the Blair/Bush line.
The late Dr David Kelly lost his life in very odd circumstances thereafter.

Open and shut case, Lad.
I will let Wolfie nominate the charity for your £100.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie.

1) Point out what matters of objective truth they lied about.

2) Point out what political or personal advantage you think they were going to get.

That destroyed Blair's career and set the Labour party as a whole into decline.

[albie]

You know very well you are bang to rights on this.
More wriggling than a worm on a fishermans hook.

1)
It was objectively untrue Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.
None were found, and the UN Weapons Inspectors said that both before and after the invasion.

2)
Support of Bush to expect US support with domestic and foreign policy goals.
Strategic positioning as a trusted ally/subordinate of US interests.

None of this is disputed, so pay up to Wolfie's choice!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie.

Show me the evidence that there was a conclusive and unarguable opinion among WMD investigators.

[BillyStubbsTears]

PS
Albie. Once again you haven't read what I wrote before diving in, even when I gave you a big hint.

I KNOW that Blair's justification for misleading people over WMD was to keep Britain close to America.

Many, many leaders have misled others for national strategic reasons. Whatever you think of the aims, it pretty well comes with the territory.

But that wasn't what I was talking about. Go back and try again.

[albie]

More absolute bollox to try and shapeshift with the truth.
Start here, BST;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/30Qt6wblC043CQcSSpgRzhp/10-new-things-we-ve-learned-about-the-iraq-war-and-its-legacy

Re-writing the story on the hoof, Jesus wept!

[BillyStubbsTears]

More absolute bollox to try and shapeshift with the truth.
Start here, BST;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/30Qt6wblC043CQcSSpgRzhp/10-new-things-we-ve-learned-about-the-iraq-war-and-its-legacy

Re-writing the story on the hoof, Jesus wept!

You're having great difficulty staying on point these days Albie.

I don't need lecturing about the morality of the Iraq War thank you, despite you retreating further and further into that part of the Left that thinks no-one else has a soul but them.

I really don't want another discussion veering off into you misreading what I say then getting arsey about me pointing that out. So please either address the points I made or drop it.