General Election

[Sprotyrover]

I was hoping to hear some news of possible tax cuts from Labour, did I miss them?

No because we don’t need tax cuts. We need the taxes that we do pay to be used more wisely for the benefit of everyone in the country and not just the wealthy.

Well it was mentioned by Rayner that we are all paying more by stealth as the tax allowance remains the same and a large proportion of folks are now in the top tax bracket because of that,due to pay rises, if  we followed the example of the SNP even more voters would suffer as the 40% would become 45%.

[Filo]

I was hoping to hear some news of possible tax cuts from Labour, did I miss them?

No because we don’t need tax cuts. We need the taxes that we do pay to be used more wisely for the benefit of everyone in the country and not just the wealthy.

Well it was mentioned by Rayner that we are all paying more by stealth as the tax allowance remains the same and a large proportion of folks are now in the top tax bracket because of that,due to pay rises, if  we followed the example of the SNP even more voters would suffer as the 40% would become 45%.

Many have been dragged into taxation by the freeze on the tax threshold, canceling any pay increase they may have got, add that to the cost of living crisis and inflation, those people are worse off, the poorest members of society, do you think that is right?

[Padge_DRFC]

This general election is affectively replacing someone really bad with a bunch that are a little bit less bad.

[SydneyRover]

This general election is affectively replacing someone really bad with a bunch that are a little bit less bad.

For what reasons Padge?

[Superspy]

Many have been dragged into taxation by the freeze on the tax threshold, canceling any pay increase they may have got...

A huge part of the issue with political debate is the constant innaccuracy - either maliciously done to mislead, or completely by accident either through misspeaking or missunderstanding.

Sorry to pick on your comment specifically Filo (I have no axe to grind with you), it's just a really easy one to highlight the point...

Nobody has ever lost their entire payrise through being pulled into a higher tax bracket, because we have no marginal taxation rate higher than 100%.
Getting a payrise, even if it pulls you into a higher tax bracket, always results in you having more take-home money after tax.

My understanding is that the worst marginal tax rate applies to those people earning between 100k and 125k a year with young children, as they lose a proportion of their personal allowance and the ability to claim free childcare at the same time, so for every £1 they earn in this bracket they only get to keep about 35p of it (not 100% sure if that's right but I think it's pretty close).

I'm not advocating for low tax thresholds - raising them is long overdue, but to say that somebody moving into a higher tax bracket has resulted in "cancelling any pay increase they may have got" is simply not true - and if we want to be able to properly debate policy decisions surely everybody has to take a starting point of presenting objective truth about the matter?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Sydney, you'll have seen me make this point loads of times. The worst bracket has been those over 50k with kids and student loans, they lose 40% tax, child benefit and a student loan charge, depending on the number of kids that can be quite excessive albeit the new rules have reduced it slightly.  When you add in rises to council tax, inflation on general bills and interest rates that's quite nasty and people are worse off.

Of course in the north that's not too bad of an issue, cost of living here is way worse, but in London, the South etc a 50k salary doesn't go far, especially if only one earner in a house.

[SydneyRover]

Sydney, you'll have seen me make this point loads of times. The worst bracket has been those over 50k with kids and student loans, they lose 40% tax, child benefit and a student loan charge, depending on the number of kids that can be quite excessive albeit the new rules have reduced it slightly.  When you add in rises to council tax, inflation on general bills and interest rates that's quite nasty and people are worse off.

Of course in the north that's not too bad of an issue, cost of living here is way worse, but in London, the South etc a 50k salary doesn't go far, especially if only one earner in a house.

Pud, I think you misread Superspy's tag as mine

[DonnyOsmond]

https://x.com/FisherAndrew79/status/1799351891962339698?t=jb0wZ1Q3Sg9ZG6j68p616A&s=19

[Superspy]

Sydney, you'll have seen me make this point loads of times. The worst bracket has been those over 50k with kids and student loans, they lose 40% tax, child benefit and a student loan charge, depending on the number of kids that can be quite excessive albeit the new rules have reduced it slightly.  When you add in rises to council tax, inflation on general bills and interest rates that's quite nasty and people are worse off.

Of course in the north that's not too bad of an issue, cost of living here is way worse, but in London, the South etc a 50k salary doesn't go far, especially if only one earner in a house.

Pud, I think you misread Superspy's tag as mine

And if he did, and it was supposed to be a response to me, then my answer is that I'm fairly sure the 100-125k bracket is worse (in % terms) than the 50-60k bracket (which is now the 60-80k bracket because it moved this year), but even if I'm wrong, or there's not a lot in it, those are definitely the 2 worst spots to be in with regard to marginal rates. And I don't dispute that adding all of those other factors in can leave people worse off - ultimately it's obvious that if your expenses go up more than your income then you're going to have less money - I was just pointing out that the first part of Filo's statement was wrong...income tax alone will never result in somebody having less money after a payrise as a result of being pulled into a higher bracket.

Unfortunately there are loads of people out there who don't realise this and think that as soon as you move into a higher rate that it gets applies to everything you earn resulting in you taking home less because they don't understand how maringal rates work. Not suggesting that's what Filo thinks either before I get jumped on.

[mugnapper]

Richy has cancelled all media appointments today.
Hoping things will calm down or pondering resigning?
Interesting times.

[Filo]

Richy has cancelled all media appointments today.
Hoping things will calm down or pondering resigning?
Interesting times.

They’ve probably told him to keep his gob shut

[Iberian Red]

That's the best thing he could do.
I wonder if he's hiding in a fridge?

Incredibly,looking at the poll there are still 3 people dumb enough to vote for him.

[Filo]

Richy has cancelled all media appointments today.
Hoping things will calm down or pondering resigning?
Interesting times.

And here’s me thinking he likes to stick to pre arranged schedule’s

[ravenrover]

What was it Mordaunt said when Rayner mentioned the highest level of taxation brought in by this lot "yes, and we hated doing it" really?

[SydneyRover]

''Rishi Sunak’s chances were always slim. And the numbers just get worse
Robert Ford''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/08/rishi-sunaks-chances-were-always-slim-and-the-numbers-just-get-worse

Have a gander at the last bar chart about who the public trust on major issues, all 9 of them to be exact.

[Filo]

Have they ran out of Roubles?

https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/1799518676472709442?s=61&t=DCRm1C_BBr5pt7J45jXUsA

[BillyStubbsTears]

Where have the senior Tory ministers vanished to?

[River Don]

Where have the senior Tory ministers vanished to?

It seems they are either concerned about their own seat like Hunt or getting out of Dodge, like Gove.

There is no fight there. They know they are done for. We have the sitting Tory MP sending out leaflets without the colour blue or Conservative logo on it.

It's everyman for himself.

[River Don]

I would particularly like to see Rees Mogg have a Portillo moment. it might happen.

[MachoMadness]

He'll be off having another reset. Get ready for some reactionary back of a fag packet policy announcement when he re emerges. Death penalty for cyclists, perhaps.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Most depressing thing about this election campaign is this.

The Tories' fiscal plans following the Budget in March are totally unrealistic. The numbers just do not add up. They require unprecedentedly large cuts in public services which are already crumbling. And they say they won't cut Defence or Health or Pensions, which are three of the biggest costs.

None of it adds up.

Get this straight. Taxes are going to have to rise whoever wins.

But we don't have a mature enough electorate to deal with that.

No party in my lifetime has ever won an election having had a manifesto saying "we will increase taxes."

They HAVE to say we won't increase taxes or people won't vote for them.

And then when taxes have to go up, voters claim they've been misled.

It's all so very childish.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I see Farage is dog-whistling again.

He's said that Sunak doesn't understand "our culture". Then of course, rowed back and said of course it's nothing to do with race, he means because he's rich and privileged.

He's the most dangerous sort of rabble rouser. A smooth, well oiled one, not a Tommy Robinson gobshite.

[ravenrover]

Which person standing for election has been married twice to European ladies and has children with EU passports but hates immigration, rails against the furlough payments yet took over £100k for his own company, and believes in Christian forgiveness for a man convicted of wire fraud and served an 8month jail sentence - the same man that he disowned in 2017 but is now a member of said prospective MPs Advisory Board?

https://bylinetimes.com/2024/06/06/who-is-posh-george-meet-the-aristocrat-and-convicted-fraudster-advising-nigel-farage/

[BillyStubbsTears]

See, it doesn't take a second to see through that b*llocks from Farage. He claims that when he said Sunak doesn't understand our culture, he meant it to mean because Sunak is rich and privileged.

So presumably rich and privileged people can't understand our culture.

That's coming from the Dulwich College educated Farage. That's Dulwich College whose fees are £55,000 a year.

Oh yeah, and here's Farage with the bankroller of RefUK, Richard Tice.

That's multi-millionaire Richard Tice who was educated at £48,000 a year Uppingham School.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And this is Farage with boarding school educated multi-millionaire Arron Banks who bankrolled Leave.EU and gave Farage £500,000 in cars, flats and cash after the referendum.

 



Does anyone with an ounce of self-respect actually think that Farage believes rich, privileged people don't understand his culture?

Does anyone with a shred of self respect really believe that Farage wasn't referring to Sunak's race?

Vote for him if you want, by all means. Just don't come here and claim that you don't know he's a racist rabble rouser.

And a liar. Clearly and demonstrably a liar after this little act.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

So do rich and privileged people not understand our culture? There's a very very small number of politicians from working class backgrounds who started with nothing. Very few at all.

[Bristol Red Rover]

So do rich and privileged people not understand our culture? There's a very very small number of politicians from working class backgrounds who started with nothing. Very few at all.

Isn't our culture all about the rich and privileged pulling the strings? That, with the story of people power as whitewashing sugar.

[Glyn_Wigley]

The longer this goes on the more convinced I am that this election is going to be to the Tories what 1983 was to Labour. In 1983 the SDP split the left-of-centre vote and crippled Labour whereas this time Reform are going to split the right-of-centre vote and hobble the Tories. The next important result of the election is who on earth will be left and have enough calibre to challenge for the leadership of the Tories after Rishi resigns.

[ravenrover]

Will he still be leader or even still standing on July 4th

[BobG]

I live quite close  to what, for many years, was the home of Douglas Hurd. A very, very beautiful house it is too. When I drove past it the other day I couldn't help but think, despite my long time loathing of Mrs Thatcher and her works, I do now pine for people like Hurd, Heseltine, Whitelaw and Howe. I might not agree with them on plenty, but they were honest and they were people I respected. Contrast them with the craven, corrupt and cretinous lot we've all had to suffer this last 4 or 5 years...

No doubt I will come to equally detest Farage, but a Conservative Party that thought it right to foist these moribund parasites on the nation does not deserve to survive.

BobG