General Election

[albie]

Good opinion piece by A L Kennedy in the Guardian, unusually;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/09/uk-election-two-party-system-green-independent-al-kennedy

Sums up the whole shebang quite well, I think.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Will he still be leader or even still standing on July 4th

There's no way of the Tories getting a new leader as there is now no official Parliamentary Party to vote for one.

[Sprotyrover]

Good opinion piece by A L Kennedy in the Guardian, unusually;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/09/uk-election-two-party-system-green-independent-al-kennedy

Sums up the whole shebang quite well, I think.

Did the author pen that at the Student Uni?

[albie]

Been in France, she says Sproty.
Sometimes looking in from outside gives you a different perspective.

For the record, I don't agree with all of it....a hung parliament is unlikely I think, but it is quite entertaining in describing the mess we are in, and the poor choices on offer.

[ravenrover]

Will he still be leader or even still standing on July 4th

There's no way of the Tories getting a new leader as there is now no official Parliamentary Party to vote for one.

So if he says sod it I've had enough what happens then?

[drfchound]

Most depressing thing about this election campaign is this.

The Tories' fiscal plans following the Budget in March are totally unrealistic. The numbers just do not add up. They require unprecedentedly large cuts in public services which are already crumbling. And they say they won't cut Defence or Health or Pensions, which are three of the biggest costs.

None of it adds up.

Get this straight. Taxes are going to have to rise whoever wins.

But we don't have a mature enough electorate to deal with that.

No party in my lifetime has ever won an election having had a manifesto saying "we will increase taxes."

They HAVE to say we won't increase taxes or people won't vote for them.

And then when taxes have to go up, voters claim they've been misled.

It's all so very childish.

I understand what you are saying bst about both sides having to say they won’t increase taxes, and then when they win, increasing taxes is inevitable.
You have endorsed such a situation frequently on here, that it is acceptable to set out a plan then change it once elected.
The thing is, most of the electorate aren’t really interested in politics and won’t know that what you have said is the only way to go.
So when the majority of people complain it shouldn’t be deemed to be childish people complaining.
It will happen and should be expected.
As for Farage, it does sound as though you are slightly worried about him.

[albie]

A more intelligent discussion would talk about the tax increases already baked in, and what the parties propose to do in response.

Resolution Foundation take summarised in the FT;
https://archive.ph/DqKAq

All we have is posturing fools dedicated to avoiding hard questions.
Vote for us and we will do something we haven't told you about, after the election.

[DonnyOsmond]

Will he still be leader or even still standing on July 4th

There's no way of the Tories getting a new leader as there is now no official Parliamentary Party to vote for one.

So if he says sod it I've had enough what happens then?

From Nadine Dorries on Twitter...

"Rumours around tonight that Sunak’s about to fall on his sword.

There are no MPs - only Ministers.

If Sunak does resign, any replacement would have to come from within Ministerial ranks…"

[ncRover]

The leader of the Green Party everyone:

https://x.com/lbc/status/1799818739938127997?s=46

[BillyStubbsTears]

A more intelligent discussion would talk about the tax increases already baked in, and what the parties propose to do in response.

Resolution Foundation take summarised in the FT;
https://archive.ph/DqKAq

All we have is posturing fools dedicated to avoiding hard questions.
Vote for us and we will do something we haven't told you about, after the election.

Yes Albie.

But as some left-leaning politician once said, "We all know which policies are the best. What we don't know is how to campaign on those and get elected."

[Bentley Bullet]

A more intelligent discussion would talk about the tax increases already baked in, and what the parties propose to do in response.

Resolution Foundation take summarised in the FT;
https://archive.ph/DqKAq

All we have is posturing fools dedicated to avoiding hard questions.
Vote for us and we will do something we haven't told you about, after the election.

Yes Albie.

But as some left-leaning politician once said, "We all know which policies are the best. What we don't know is how to campaign on those and get elected."

Why not just lie to the electorate with more right-wing policies than intended, and then change to more left-wing policies once elected, like you want Labour to do?

[SydneyRover]

A more intelligent discussion would talk about the tax increases already baked in, and what the parties propose to do in response.

Resolution Foundation take summarised in the FT;
https://archive.ph/DqKAq

All we have is posturing fools dedicated to avoiding hard questions.
Vote for us and we will do something we haven't told you about, after the election.

Yes Albie.

But as some left-leaning politician once said, "We all know which policies are the best. What we don't know is how to campaign on those and get elected."

Why not just lie to the electorate with more right-wing policies than intended, and then change to more left-wing policies once elected, like you want Labour to do?

fmd it's rip van winkle, isn't the debate about how to get out of a 14+ year economic nightmare?

[Sprotyrover]

Border Force Command! Sounds like a Netflix comedy show! set not a Labour Party Quango!

[Sprotyrover]

Great British Energy sounds like another Netflix Tv comedy show, not a Labour Quango to appease the Scots!

[ncRover]

A more intelligent discussion would talk about the tax increases already baked in, and what the parties propose to do in response.

Resolution Foundation take summarised in the FT;
https://archive.ph/DqKAq

All we have is posturing fools dedicated to avoiding hard questions.
Vote for us and we will do something we haven't told you about, after the election.

Yes Albie.

But as some left-leaning politician once said, "We all know which policies are the best. What we don't know is how to campaign on those and get elected."

Why not just lie to the electorate with more right-wing policies than intended, and then change to more left-wing policies once elected, like you want Labour to do?

I suggested a few months ago that the main ideological opposition to Starmer in this country could be from further left. With Labour on track to win so many seats it doesn’t sound so silly now.

With the main pressure on the self-professed socialist Starmer coming from inside his own party could we see a creep towards something that the electorate didn’t vote for?

[Bentley Bullet]

A more intelligent discussion would talk about the tax increases already baked in, and what the parties propose to do in response.

Resolution Foundation take summarised in the FT;
https://archive.ph/DqKAq

All we have is posturing fools dedicated to avoiding hard questions.
Vote for us and we will do something we haven't told you about, after the election.

Yes Albie.

But as some left-leaning politician once said, "We all know which policies are the best. What we don't know is how to campaign on those and get elected."

Why not just lie to the electorate with more right-wing policies than intended, and then change to more left-wing policies once elected, like you want Labour to do?

I suggested a few months ago that the main ideological opposition to Starmer in this country could be from further left. With Labour on track to win so many seats it doesn’t sound so silly now.

With the main pressure on the self-professed socialist Starmer coming from inside his own party could we see a creep towards something that the electorate didn’t vote for?

Absolutely, and there are hypocrites on this forum who want that to happen. You know, those fakes who preach about honesty and integrity in politics, and want the liars removed from politics altogether!

[BillyStubbsTears]

A more intelligent discussion would talk about the tax increases already baked in, and what the parties propose to do in response.

Resolution Foundation take summarised in the FT;
https://archive.ph/DqKAq

All we have is posturing fools dedicated to avoiding hard questions.
Vote for us and we will do something we haven't told you about, after the election.

Yes Albie.

But as some left-leaning politician once said, "We all know which policies are the best. What we don't know is how to campaign on those and get elected."

Why not just lie to the electorate with more right-wing policies than intended, and then change to more left-wing policies once elected, like you want Labour to do?

I suggested a few months ago that the main ideological opposition to Starmer in this country could be from further left. With Labour on track to win so many seats it doesn’t sound so silly now.

With the main pressure on the self-professed socialist Starmer coming from inside his own party could we see a creep towards something that the electorate didn’t vote for?

If that does happen (spoiler: it won't) then he can be held to account by the electorate in 5 years time. That's kinda how democracy works.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Good news

They've brought back The Day Today!

https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1799859124047593566

[ncRover]

A more intelligent discussion would talk about the tax increases already baked in, and what the parties propose to do in response.

Resolution Foundation take summarised in the FT;
https://archive.ph/DqKAq

All we have is posturing fools dedicated to avoiding hard questions.
Vote for us and we will do something we haven't told you about, after the election.

Yes Albie.

But as some left-leaning politician once said, "We all know which policies are the best. What we don't know is how to campaign on those and get elected."

Why not just lie to the electorate with more right-wing policies than intended, and then change to more left-wing policies once elected, like you want Labour to do?

I suggested a few months ago that the main ideological opposition to Starmer in this country could be from further left. With Labour on track to win so many seats it doesn’t sound so silly now.

With the main pressure on the self-professed socialist Starmer coming from inside his own party could we see a creep towards something that the electorate didn’t vote for?

If that does happen (spoiler: it won't) then he can be held to account by the electorate in 5 years time. That's kinda how democracy works.

So what do you mean by quoting “We all know which policies are the best. What we don't know is how to campaign on those and get elected” ?

Would you like Starmer to get elected and then creep further left during his first term or propose a more left wing manifesto to the electorate in the next election?

[Sprotyrover]

A more intelligent discussion would talk about the tax increases already baked in, and what the parties propose to do in response.

Resolution Foundation take summarised in the FT;
https://archive.ph/DqKAq

All we have is posturing fools dedicated to avoiding hard questions.
Vote for us and we will do something we haven't told you about, after the election.

Yes Albie.

But as some left-leaning politician once said, "We all know which policies are the best. What we don't know is how to campaign on those and get elected."

Why not just lie to the electorate with more right-wing policies than intended, and then change to more left-wing policies once elected, like you want Labour to do?

I suggested a few months ago that the main ideological opposition to Starmer in this country could be from further left. With Labour on track to win so many seats it doesn’t sound so silly now.

With the main pressure on the self-professed socialist Starmer coming from inside his own party could we see a creep towards something that the electorate didn’t vote for?

If that does happen (spoiler: it won't) then he can be held to account by the electorate in 5 years time. That's kinda how democracy works.

So what do you mean by quoting “We all know which policies are the best. What we don't know is how to campaign on those and get elected” ?

Would you like Starmer to get elected and then creep further left during his first term or propose a more left wing manifesto to the electorate in the next election?

I for one Haven’t got a problem with Starmer, Rachel Reeves is absolutely sound with her message so far! But will ‘THE IDIOTS’ take over the asylum, just imagine the mess if we have a Civil War in the new Government and the extreme left wing come out on top!
We we so near to insanity back in 2019!

[River Don]

Does the fact that the Sunaks must have an annual passive income in the tens of millions (how does that square with the tax they pay BTW)  mean they don't really understand the concerns of ordinary British people?

I think the fact that Sunak asked a homeless man if he worked in the city answers that.

[Iberian Red]

Good news

They've brought back The Day Today!

https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1799859124047593566

Imagine going out to be interviewed (while Rishi is hiding in a fridge no doubt),and not wanting to be questioned.

Utter embarrassment.

[scawsby steve]

Well I've heard it all now. After accusing Boris and the Tories of being liars, which they undoubtedly are, it's now being suggested that Starmer deliberately lies to the public that he won't put taxes up, when he knows that he will.

Furthermore, if the public then complain about it, they're just being childish. Well, a lot of traditional Labour supporters since Brexit have been called thick, racist, and gammon, so childish can be the new moniker.

[albie]

It seems fair to point out that saying you will do one thing, or not saying what you really plan to do, then doing something undeclared, is a clear attempt to mislead voters.
Deliberately misleading voters is fraud, plain and simple.

Your mandate in a democracy rests on the voting public having an informed choice.
Whoever sets out to restrict that choice, by disinformation or incomplete explanation, is subverting the democratic process.

Some are so ethically challenged that this seems reasonable to them.

[River Don]

Given the state of the nations finances, any party claiming they will cut taxes is on thin ice

As the Spectator has made plain, based on the commitments the Tories have made, using their own methodology they will have to raise an additional £3,000 in tax from hard working families over the course of a government.

Much is unknown, we don't know what the future holds. Should things with the Russians worsen, we can forget all about tax commitments.

How optimistic are you about the future? Given the state of the economy, the state of the climate, the geopolitical situation... It's difficult to be optimistic.

[Iberian Red]

Well I've heard it all now. After accusing Boris and the Tories of being liars, which they undoubtedly are, it's now being suggested that Starmer deliberately lies to the public that he won't put taxes up, when he knows that he will.

Furthermore, if the public then complain about it, they're just being childish. Well, a lot of traditional Labour supporters since Brexit have been called thick, racist, and gammon, so childish can be the new moniker.

Cruel to be kind and all that SS.

[Bentley Bullet]

One word.

Well I've heard it all now. After accusing Boris and the Tories of being liars, which they undoubtedly are, it's now being suggested that Starmer deliberately lies to the public that he won't put taxes up, when he knows that he will.

Furthermore, if the public then complain about it, they're just being childish. Well, a lot of traditional Labour supporters since Brexit have been called thick, racist, and gammon, so childish can be the new moniker.

It seems fair to point out that saying you will do one thing, or not saying what you really plan to do, then doing something undeclared, is a clear attempt to mislead voters.
Deliberately misleading voters is fraud, plain and simple.

Your mandate in a democracy rests on the voting public having an informed choice.
Whoever sets out to restrict that choice, by disinformation or incomplete explanation, is subverting the democratic process.

Some are so ethically challenged that this seems reasonable to them.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

In a word...... FAKES

[drfchound]

One word.

Well I've heard it all now. After accusing Boris and the Tories of being liars, which they undoubtedly are, it's now being suggested that Starmer deliberately lies to the public that he won't put taxes up, when he knows that he will.

Furthermore, if the public then complain about it, they're just being childish. Well, a lot of traditional Labour supporters since Brexit have been called thick, racist, and gammon, so childish can be the new moniker.

It seems fair to point out that saying you will do one thing, or not saying what you really plan to do, then doing something undeclared, is a clear attempt to mislead voters.
Deliberately misleading voters is fraud, plain and simple.

Your mandate in a democracy rests on the voting public having an informed choice.
Whoever sets out to restrict that choice, by disinformation or incomplete explanation, is subverting the democratic process.

Some are so ethically challenged that this seems reasonable to them.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

In a word...... FAKES

It seems to be accepted by at least two of them now that it is ok to deceive the electorate.

[SydneyRover]

Good news

They've brought back The Day Today!

https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1799859124047593566

That parrot is dead .................. no it's not

[SydneyRover]

It would be funny if it wasn't so serious, 4 weeks out from an election the tories have to declare that sunak will remain leader .......... for the next 4 weeks.