0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
Very pleased to see Labour committing to making the minimum wage a genuine living wage that people can live on.I remember working at the Job Centre just before the first Minimum Wage legislation was passed and seeing jobs advertised at scandalously low rates. One "Label Sticker wanted £1.20 per hour. No experience necessary" will always stick in my mind.Not only the fair and moral thing to commit to but also the economic conditions means it makes absolute sense. Very low unemployment and a strong labour market.
Quote from: Iberian Red on May 26, 2024, 06:51:42 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on May 26, 2024, 06:43:30 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 26, 2024, 05:10:41 pmI'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.Disliking of foreigners or disliking of mass immigration Billy ?Disliking of foreigners is a subtle attempt at pointing the finger towards racism .Disliking mass immigration is a political issue , even Starmer has said it needs to be reduced although he says many things of course .We see you Billy boy .Disliking of foreigners is racist.Just like a disliking of 6 fingered inbreds could be considered anti Barnsley. Disliking of foreigners is xenophobia not racism, read a dictionary sometime https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/xenophobia-and-racism-difference
Quote from: tyke1962 on May 26, 2024, 06:43:30 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 26, 2024, 05:10:41 pmI'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.Disliking of foreigners or disliking of mass immigration Billy ?Disliking of foreigners is a subtle attempt at pointing the finger towards racism .Disliking mass immigration is a political issue , even Starmer has said it needs to be reduced although he says many things of course .We see you Billy boy .Disliking of foreigners is racist.Just like a disliking of 6 fingered inbreds could be considered anti Barnsley.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 26, 2024, 05:10:41 pmI'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.Disliking of foreigners or disliking of mass immigration Billy ?Disliking of foreigners is a subtle attempt at pointing the finger towards racism .Disliking mass immigration is a political issue , even Starmer has said it needs to be reduced although he says many things of course .We see you Billy boy .
I'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.
Quote from: Ldr on May 26, 2024, 07:13:07 pmQuote from: Iberian Red on May 26, 2024, 06:51:42 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on May 26, 2024, 06:43:30 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 26, 2024, 05:10:41 pmI'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.Disliking of foreigners or disliking of mass immigration Billy ?Disliking of foreigners is a subtle attempt at pointing the finger towards racism .Disliking mass immigration is a political issue , even Starmer has said it needs to be reduced although he says many things of course .We see you Billy boy .Disliking of foreigners is racist.Just like a disliking of 6 fingered inbreds could be considered anti Barnsley. Disliking of foreigners is xenophobia not racism, read a dictionary sometime https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/xenophobia-and-racism-differenceWell,thanks for the advice Ldr.Maybe you can help me on the nitty gritty finer detail.What's the difference between a xenophobe and racist?I've always imagined they are typically overweight gammon faced losers.Is that correct?
Quote from: Iberian Red on May 26, 2024, 06:51:42 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on May 26, 2024, 06:43:30 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 26, 2024, 05:10:41 pmI'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.Disliking of foreigners or disliking of mass immigration Billy ?Disliking of foreigners is a subtle attempt at pointing the finger towards racism .Disliking mass immigration is a political issue , even Starmer has said it needs to be reduced although he says many things of course .We see you Billy boy .Disliking of foreigners is racist.Just like a disliking of 6 fingered inbreds could be considered anti Barnsley. Disliking of foreigners is xenophobia not racism, read a dictionary sometime https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/xenophobia-and-racism-difference
Quote from: tyke1962 on May 26, 2024, 06:43:30 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 26, 2024, 05:10:41 pmI'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.Disliking of foreigners or disliking of mass immigration Billy ?Disliking of foreigners is a subtle attempt at pointing the finger towards racism .Disliking mass immigration is a political issue , even Starmer has said it needs to be reduced although he says many things of course .We see you Billy boy .Disliking of foreigners is racist.Just like a disliking of 6 fingered inbreds could be considered anti Barnsley.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 26, 2024, 05:10:41 pmI'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.Disliking of foreigners or disliking of mass immigration Billy ?Disliking of foreigners is a subtle attempt at pointing the finger towards racism .Disliking mass immigration is a political issue , even Starmer has said it needs to be reduced although he says many things of course .We see you Billy boy .
I'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.
Quote from: Branton Red on May 27, 2024, 05:19:13 pmVery pleased to see Labour committing to making the minimum wage a genuine living wage that people can live on.I remember working at the Job Centre just before the first Minimum Wage legislation was passed and seeing jobs advertised at scandalously low rates. One "Label Sticker wanted £1.20 per hour. No experience necessary" will always stick in my mind.Not only the fair and moral thing to commit to but also the economic conditions means it makes absolute sense. Very low unemployment and a strong labour market.That must be classed as a difference, surely?
Quote from: Iberian Red on May 27, 2024, 06:36:04 pmQuote from: Ldr on May 26, 2024, 07:13:07 pmQuote from: Iberian Red on May 26, 2024, 06:51:42 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on May 26, 2024, 06:43:30 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 26, 2024, 05:10:41 pmI'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.Disliking of foreigners or disliking of mass immigration Billy ?Disliking of foreigners is a subtle attempt at pointing the finger towards racism .Disliking mass immigration is a political issue , even Starmer has said it needs to be reduced although he says many things of course .We see you Billy boy .Disliking of foreigners is racist.Just like a disliking of 6 fingered inbreds could be considered anti Barnsley. Disliking of foreigners is xenophobia not racism, read a dictionary sometime https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/xenophobia-and-racism-differenceWell,thanks for the advice Ldr.Maybe you can help me on the nitty gritty finer detail.What's the difference between a xenophobe and racist?I've always imagined they are typically overweight gammon faced losers.Is that correct?Am sure a man of your “intelligence” can get everything he needs from the link provided
Quote from: Ldr on May 27, 2024, 06:40:09 pmQuote from: Iberian Red on May 27, 2024, 06:36:04 pmQuote from: Ldr on May 26, 2024, 07:13:07 pmQuote from: Iberian Red on May 26, 2024, 06:51:42 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on May 26, 2024, 06:43:30 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 26, 2024, 05:10:41 pmI'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.Disliking of foreigners or disliking of mass immigration Billy ?Disliking of foreigners is a subtle attempt at pointing the finger towards racism .Disliking mass immigration is a political issue , even Starmer has said it needs to be reduced although he says many things of course .We see you Billy boy .Disliking of foreigners is racist.Just like a disliking of 6 fingered inbreds could be considered anti Barnsley. Disliking of foreigners is xenophobia not racism, read a dictionary sometime https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/xenophobia-and-racism-differenceWell,thanks for the advice Ldr.Maybe you can help me on the nitty gritty finer detail.What's the difference between a xenophobe and racist?I've always imagined they are typically overweight gammon faced losers.Is that correct?Am sure a man of your “intelligence” can get everything he needs from the link providedYep. I found 50 shades of gammon.Not sure which one you are tho.
Quote from: Iberian Red on May 27, 2024, 06:36:04 pmQuote from: Ldr on May 26, 2024, 07:13:07 pmQuote from: Iberian Red on May 26, 2024, 06:51:42 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on May 26, 2024, 06:43:30 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 26, 2024, 05:10:41 pmI'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.Disliking of foreigners or disliking of mass immigration Billy ?Disliking of foreigners is a subtle attempt at pointing the finger towards racism .Disliking mass immigration is a political issue , even Starmer has said it needs to be reduced although he says many things of course .We see you Billy boy .Disliking of foreigners is racist.Just like a disliking of 6 fingered inbreds could be considered anti Barnsley. Disliking of foreigners is xenophobia not racism, read a dictionary sometime https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/xenophobia-and-racism-differenceWell,thanks for the advice Ldr.Maybe you can help me on the nitty gritty finer detail.What's the difference between a xenophobe and racist?I've always imagined they are typically overweight gammon faced losers.Is that correct?Am sure a man of your “intelligence” can get everything he needs from the link provided
Quote from: Ldr on May 26, 2024, 07:13:07 pmQuote from: Iberian Red on May 26, 2024, 06:51:42 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on May 26, 2024, 06:43:30 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 26, 2024, 05:10:41 pmI'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.Disliking of foreigners or disliking of mass immigration Billy ?Disliking of foreigners is a subtle attempt at pointing the finger towards racism .Disliking mass immigration is a political issue , even Starmer has said it needs to be reduced although he says many things of course .We see you Billy boy .Disliking of foreigners is racist.Just like a disliking of 6 fingered inbreds could be considered anti Barnsley. Disliking of foreigners is xenophobia not racism, read a dictionary sometime https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/xenophobia-and-racism-differenceWell,thanks for the advice Ldr.Maybe you can help me on the nitty gritty finer detail.What's the difference between a xenophobe and racist?I've always imagined they are typically overweight gammon faced losers.Is that correct?
Quote from: Iberian Red on May 26, 2024, 06:51:42 pmQuote from: tyke1962 on May 26, 2024, 06:43:30 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 26, 2024, 05:10:41 pmI'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.Disliking of foreigners or disliking of mass immigration Billy ?Disliking of foreigners is a subtle attempt at pointing the finger towards racism .Disliking mass immigration is a political issue , even Starmer has said it needs to be reduced although he says many things of course .We see you Billy boy .Disliking of foreigners is racist.Just like a disliking of 6 fingered inbreds could be considered anti Barnsley. Disliking of foreigners is xenophobia not racism, read a dictionary sometime https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/xenophobia-and-racism-difference
Quote from: tyke1962 on May 26, 2024, 06:43:30 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 26, 2024, 05:10:41 pmI'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.Disliking of foreigners or disliking of mass immigration Billy ?Disliking of foreigners is a subtle attempt at pointing the finger towards racism .Disliking mass immigration is a political issue , even Starmer has said it needs to be reduced although he says many things of course .We see you Billy boy .Disliking of foreigners is racist.Just like a disliking of 6 fingered inbreds could be considered anti Barnsley.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 26, 2024, 05:10:41 pmI'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.Disliking of foreigners or disliking of mass immigration Billy ?Disliking of foreigners is a subtle attempt at pointing the finger towards racism .Disliking mass immigration is a political issue , even Starmer has said it needs to be reduced although he says many things of course .We see you Billy boy .
I'd be a lot more forgiving of Hound trolling me on this topic if he was able to explain which of the core points that I've made in that post (yes, yes, yes, obviously exaggerated for comic effects) are factually wrong. The Tories ARE now disproportionately supported by old people who self identify as disliking foreigners.The Tory party IS facing a major challenge to keep hold of those voters in the face of Reform doing the "we don't like foreigners" thing more effectively.The Tory party HAS regularly enacted policies which have disproportionately hit the young, while insulating the old.The idiotic National Service idea HAS been thought up on the hoof, in a panic at how badly the Tories have started, literally 2 days after a minister categorically said they were not going to bring back National Service.But a right winger there thinks it's ludicrous to point these facts out. Thank goodness I've got him on ignore.
I've given you a like. That's what grown ups do.Or do they just troll,ask pedantic questions when they disagree with someone's opinion?You and I know exactly which category you gall into.
Quote from: Iberian Red on May 27, 2024, 08:35:02 pmI've given you a like. That's what grown ups do.Or do they just troll,ask pedantic questions when they disagree with someone's opinion?You and I know exactly which category you gall into.You never said anything to agree / disagree with. Pedantry you may not like but is what I said wrong?
Quote from: Ldr on May 27, 2024, 08:38:03 pmQuote from: Iberian Red on May 27, 2024, 08:35:02 pmI've given you a like. That's what grown ups do.Or do they just troll,ask pedantic questions when they disagree with someone's opinion?You and I know exactly which category you gall into.You never said anything to agree / disagree with. Pedantry you may not like but is what I said wrong?Pedantry.It is.Get a dictionary out every now and then.
HAYour second last paragraph. I had a similar experience when I went to university in 1985. Someone I got to know (not someone I'd consider a close friend, but he was interesting and fun) was a firm Tory supporter. We got talking about the idea of extending university opportunities to other kids. I gave examples of people I'd known at school who had razor sharp minds, but who, for whatever reason, had left school at 16 and never even thought of university as a possibility.He said he was glad they didn't. Because it was in his interests to keep the pool of graduates as small as possible to maximise his own market value.It was a genuine eye opener into how Tory minds operate. Both selfish AND profoundly damaging for the country and society as a whole.
DD.Individuals looking after and out for themselves form the core of Toryism.Who was it who said there's no such thing as society?If you hear a great icon of Toryism saying that, it's drawing a line. You choose which side of it you want to live your life on. I'm very happy that I chose a different position.
Very difficult to equate a place like Doncaster with London. There could not be a more extreme example, especially when the period you are talking about is the early 80's.London then was on the cusp of a construction revolution (Canary Wharf, DLR, ect) Doncaster was in the midst of an industrial meltdown.Do you not think that the working class Tories you worked with were in the process of filling their boots while the going was good.It may sound harsh but i would imagine plenty of them were thinking along the lines of "i'm getting stuck in, working hard and making a mint, why are others not doing the same"We all know life's not as easy or straight forward as that for everyone but for someone in that environment, its very easy to see their thought processes.I don't agree with your statement that they thought the could only do well if the rest of the country was crushed and put in its place.The Tories great mantra at that time was Tebbit's "get on your bike" attitude to aspiring people for them to reap a benefit from moving to where the opportunities existed. I did something similar to you in the 90's, the opportunities in my field were very restricted in Donny and i moved to London to benefit from the vastly increased opportunities. I worked with plenty of people with the same attitude you explained, all of them to a man(and woman|) were determined to strive and make something of themselves from what lay in front of them. They didn't want or need unions to work for them, they were motivated to do it themselves, and they did.If anything its this attitude that needs to be reinforced into people today, a sense of reliance and belief in oneself to achieve and go onto make something of their careers.I now work back in the North and work with plenty of youngsters entering our industry who have taken this outlook on board, they all know they are starting from a difficult base but are determined to progress and succeed. Their a credit to themselves and with this attitude they will go on and the world is their oyster.We need to see this more in this day and age, don't wait for someone to tell you what you should do or can do, go out and show them what you will do.You and i did it, no reason why more can't go on and achieve.
dd ''Its a bit like saying that all people who vote Labour think the same as Billy Smith in Edlo, who's brought up his family of 8 and lived entirely on benefits for the whole duration''quite correct dd 'tone deaf' does come to mind
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 28, 2024, 02:37:43 pmDD.Individuals looking after and out for themselves form the core of Toryism.Who was it who said there's no such thing as society?If you hear a great icon of Toryism saying that, it's drawing a line. You choose which side of it you want to live your life on. I'm very happy that I chose a different position. So your doubling down on this!Regardless what you think forms the core of Toryism your going to call out a whole tranche of society because "that's how you think they all are"Tone deaf and tin eared comes to mind, and i don't think all Labour supporters are like you.I'd say most people will think the best way to help someone is to make sure they have put themselves in a position to be able to help them first.
Quote from: SydneyRover on May 28, 2024, 03:31:25 pmdd ''Its a bit like saying that all people who vote Labour think the same as Billy Smith in Edlo, who's brought up his family of 8 and lived entirely on benefits for the whole duration''quite correct dd 'tone deaf' does come to mindYou do relise that everyone else can see the full quote and not just the selected for impact that you have posted!Go to bed daft lad.
Quote from: danumdon on May 28, 2024, 02:44:55 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 28, 2024, 02:37:43 pmDD.Individuals looking after and out for themselves form the core of Toryism.Who was it who said there's no such thing as society?If you hear a great icon of Toryism saying that, it's drawing a line. You choose which side of it you want to live your life on. I'm very happy that I chose a different position. So your doubling down on this!Regardless what you think forms the core of Toryism your going to call out a whole tranche of society because "that's how you think they all are"Tone deaf and tin eared comes to mind, and i don't think all Labour supporters are like you.I'd say most people will think the best way to help someone is to make sure they have put themselves in a position to be able to help them first.Who said, there's no such thing as society?
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 28, 2024, 02:37:43 pmDD.Individuals looking after and out for themselves form the core of Toryism.Who was it who said there's no such thing as society?If you hear a great icon of Toryism saying that, it's drawing a line. You choose which side of it you want to live your life on. I'm very happy that I chose a different position. So your doubling down on this!Regardless what you think forms the core of Toryism your going to call out a whole tranche of society because "that's how you think they all are"Tone deaf and tin eared comes to mind, and i don't think all Labour supporters are like you.I'd say most people will think the best way to help someone is to make sure they have put themselves in a position to be able to help them first.
What I hear from the above posts is how a kick ass attitude is important to be able to get on. I partly agree. Where this fails is first in creating a culture of selfishness - thanks Maggie and friends - and secondly in ignoring the creativity and energy in many people who are seriously disadvantaged. That costs everyone in benefit payments, health costs, policing, prisons, general societal chaos and destruction. Far better to see society values of support being valued, and effectively used. Overall, that is never a tory value. The tory value, the establishment value is, has always been, divide and rule. Blame the disadvantaged, the ones not fitting into the militaristic values of the mainstream.Starmers Labour is largely on board with that society selfishness story.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 28, 2024, 04:19:44 pmQuote from: danumdon on May 28, 2024, 02:44:55 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 28, 2024, 02:37:43 pmDD.Individuals looking after and out for themselves form the core of Toryism.Who was it who said there's no such thing as society?If you hear a great icon of Toryism saying that, it's drawing a line. You choose which side of it you want to live your life on. I'm very happy that I chose a different position. So your doubling down on this!Regardless what you think forms the core of Toryism your going to call out a whole tranche of society because "that's how you think they all are"Tone deaf and tin eared comes to mind, and i don't think all Labour supporters are like you.I'd say most people will think the best way to help someone is to make sure they have put themselves in a position to be able to help them first.Who said, there's no such thing as society?So let me get this straight, because some long dead politician said something that's debatable at best and batshit crazy at worst and this was reinforced to you by a Tory voter, you deem a large proportion of the population to be sub optimal or unworthy of your "high standards"Wasn't it you just the other day talking about older people hating young people, have you not just done the same?My advice is go lay down in a darkened room for a few days. Barking!
Quote from: danumdon on May 28, 2024, 02:44:55 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 28, 2024, 02:37:43 pmDD.Individuals looking after and out for themselves form the core of Toryism.Who was it who said there's no such thing as society?If you hear a great icon of Toryism saying that, it's drawing a line. You choose which side of it you want to live your life on. I'm very happy that I chose a different position. So your doubling down on this!Regardless what you think forms the core of Toryism your going to call out a whole tranche of society because "that's how you think they all are"Tone deaf and tin eared comes to mind, and i don't think all Labour supporters are like you.I'd say most people will think the best way to help someone is to make sure they have put themselves in a position to be able to help them first.Who said, there's no such thing as society?
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 28, 2024, 02:37:43 pmDD.Individuals looking after and out for themselves form the core of Toryism.Who was it who said there's no such thing as society?If you hear a great icon of Toryism saying that, it's drawing a line. You choose which side of it you want to live your life on. I'm very happy that I chose a different position. So your doubling down on this!Regardless what you think forms the core of Toryism your going to call out a whole tranche of society because "that's how you think they all are"Tone deaf and tin eared comes to mind, and i don't think all Labour supporters are like you.I'd say most people will think the best way to help someone is to make sure they have put themselves in a position to be able to help them first.
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on May 28, 2024, 05:13:47 pmWhat I hear from the above posts is how a kick ass attitude is important to be able to get on. I partly agree. Where this fails is first in creating a culture of selfishness - thanks Maggie and friends - and secondly in ignoring the creativity and energy in many people who are seriously disadvantaged. That costs everyone in benefit payments, health costs, policing, prisons, general societal chaos and destruction. Far better to see society values of support being valued, and effectively used. Overall, that is never a tory value. The tory value, the establishment value is, has always been, divide and rule. Blame the disadvantaged, the ones not fitting into the militaristic values of the mainstream.Starmers Labour is largely on board with that society selfishness story.You should send this information to tory HQ where they will try and instigate a police investigation.
Quote from: danumdon on May 28, 2024, 04:58:15 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 28, 2024, 04:19:44 pmQuote from: danumdon on May 28, 2024, 02:44:55 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 28, 2024, 02:37:43 pmDD.Individuals looking after and out for themselves form the core of Toryism.Who was it who said there's no such thing as society?If you hear a great icon of Toryism saying that, it's drawing a line. You choose which side of it you want to live your life on. I'm very happy that I chose a different position. So your doubling down on this!Regardless what you think forms the core of Toryism your going to call out a whole tranche of society because "that's how you think they all are"Tone deaf and tin eared comes to mind, and i don't think all Labour supporters are like you.I'd say most people will think the best way to help someone is to make sure they have put themselves in a position to be able to help them first.Who said, there's no such thing as society?So let me get this straight, because some long dead politician said something that's debatable at best and batshit crazy at worst and this was reinforced to you by a Tory voter, you deem a large proportion of the population to be sub optimal or unworthy of your "high standards"Wasn't it you just the other day talking about older people hating young people, have you not just done the same?My advice is go lay down in a darkened room for a few days. Barking!Quote from: danumdon on May 28, 2024, 04:58:15 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 28, 2024, 04:19:44 pmQuote from: danumdon on May 28, 2024, 02:44:55 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 28, 2024, 02:37:43 pmDD.Individuals looking after and out for themselves form the core of Toryism.Who was it who said there's no such thing as society?If you hear a great icon of Toryism saying that, it's drawing a line. You choose which side of it you want to live your life on. I'm very happy that I chose a different position. So your doubling down on this!Regardless what you think forms the core of Toryism your going to call out a whole tranche of society because "that's how you think they all are"Tone deaf and tin eared comes to mind, and i don't think all Labour supporters are like you.I'd say most people will think the best way to help someone is to make sure they have put themselves in a position to be able to help them first.Who said, there's no such thing as society?So let me get this straight, because some long dead politician said something that's debatable at best and batshit crazy at worst and this was reinforced to you by a Tory voter, you deem a large proportion of the population to be sub optimal or unworthy of your "high standards"Wasn't it you just the other day talking about older people hating young people, have you not just done the same?My advice is go lay down in a darkened room for a few days. Barking!What a very odd response.I've described for you a central tenet of Toryism.Traditional Toryism that is, the current bunch of shites for souls don't have a philosophical concept between them.Traditional Toryism is founded on the principle that individuals should first and foremost look out for themselves.The lad at university I described was simply taking that to its logical conclusionHis take was that what might be good for society as a whole, was sub optimal for him personally.Why are you getting so wound up about this? What do YOU think Toryism stands for?
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 28, 2024, 04:19:44 pmQuote from: danumdon on May 28, 2024, 02:44:55 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 28, 2024, 02:37:43 pmDD.Individuals looking after and out for themselves form the core of Toryism.Who was it who said there's no such thing as society?If you hear a great icon of Toryism saying that, it's drawing a line. You choose which side of it you want to live your life on. I'm very happy that I chose a different position. So your doubling down on this!Regardless what you think forms the core of Toryism your going to call out a whole tranche of society because "that's how you think they all are"Tone deaf and tin eared comes to mind, and i don't think all Labour supporters are like you.I'd say most people will think the best way to help someone is to make sure they have put themselves in a position to be able to help them first.Who said, there's no such thing as society?So let me get this straight, because some long dead politician said something that's debatable at best and batshit crazy at worst and this was reinforced to you by a Tory voter, you deem a large proportion of the population to be sub optimal or unworthy of your "high standards"Wasn't it you just the other day talking about older people hating young people, have you not just done the same?My advice is go lay down in a darkened room for a few days. Barking!
Quote from: danumdon on May 28, 2024, 02:44:55 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 28, 2024, 02:37:43 pmDD.Individuals looking after and out for themselves form the core of Toryism.Who was it who said there's no such thing as society?If you hear a great icon of Toryism saying that, it's drawing a line. You choose which side of it you want to live your life on. I'm very happy that I chose a different position. So your doubling down on this!Regardless what you think forms the core of Toryism your going to call out a whole tranche of society because "that's how you think they all are"Tone deaf and tin eared comes to mind, and i don't think all Labour supporters are like you.I'd say most people will think the best way to help someone is to make sure they have put themselves in a position to be able to help them first.Who said, there's no such thing as society?
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 28, 2024, 02:37:43 pmDD.Individuals looking after and out for themselves form the core of Toryism.Who was it who said there's no such thing as society?If you hear a great icon of Toryism saying that, it's drawing a line. You choose which side of it you want to live your life on. I'm very happy that I chose a different position. So your doubling down on this!Regardless what you think forms the core of Toryism your going to call out a whole tranche of society because "that's how you think they all are"Tone deaf and tin eared comes to mind, and i don't think all Labour supporters are like you.I'd say most people will think the best way to help someone is to make sure they have put themselves in a position to be able to help them first.
Very difficult to equate a place like Doncaster with London. There could not be a more extreme example, especially when the period you are talking about is the early 80's.London then was on the cusp of a construction revolution (Canary Wharf, DLR, ect) Doncaster was in the midst of an industrial meltdown.Do you not think that the working class Tories you worked with were in the process of filling their boots while the going was good.It may sound harsh but i would imagine plenty of them were thinking along the lines of "i'm getting stuck in, working hard and making a mint, why are others not doing the same"We all know life's not as easy or straight forward as that for everyone but for someone in that environment, its very easy to see their thought processes.I don't agree with your statement that they thought the could only do well if the rest of the country was crushed and put in its place.The Tories great mantra at that time was Tebbit's "get on your bike" attitude to aspiring people for them to reap a benefit from moving to where the opportunities existed. I did something similar to you in the 90's, the opportunities in my field were very restricted in Donny and i moved to London to benefit from the vastly increased opportunities. I worked with plenty of people with the same attitude you explained, all of them to a man(and woman|) were determined to strive and make something of themselves from what lay in front of them. They didn't want or need unions to work for them, they were motivated to do it themselves, and they did.If anything its this attitude that needs to be reinforced into people today, a sense of reliance and belief in oneself to achieve and go onto make something of their careers.I now work back in the North and work with plenty of youngsters entering our industry who have taken this outlook on board, they all know they are starting from a difficult base but are determined to progress and succeed. Their a credit to themselves and with this attitude they will go on and the world is their oyster.We need to see this more in this day and age, don't wait for someone to tell you what you should do or can do, go out and show them what you will do.You and i did it, no reason why more can't go on and achieve.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 28, 2024, 01:44:06 pmHAYour second last paragraph. I had a similar experience when I went to university in 1985. Someone I got to know (not someone I'd consider a close friend, but he was interesting and fun) was a firm Tory supporter. We got talking about the idea of extending university opportunities to other kids. I gave examples of people I'd known at school who had razor sharp minds, but who, for whatever reason, had left school at 16 and never even thought of university as a possibility.He said he was glad they didn't. Because it was in his interests to keep the pool of graduates as small as possible to maximise his own market value.It was a genuine eye opener into how Tory minds operate. Both selfish AND profoundly damaging for the country and society as a whole. It's a bit of a long shot to equate what is one persons thoughts onto a whole section of people.Its a bit like saying that all people who vote Labour think the same as Billy Smith in Edlo, who's brought up his family of 8 and lived entirely on benefits for the whole duration. That's not a reasonable thing to say and anyone of a sound and grounded mind would think so.