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Doesn't this sum up the shite, childish attitude of our media to politics?https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/1801207591894147367A generation of f**king w**k political journalists who think there job is to make politics into some sort of light entertainment cack.And then complain when we get w**k entertainers for politicians.And THEN complain when someone just tries to like... y'know...just competent at the job.God knows I don't agree with everything Starmer has done and I DO think he is being too under ambitious. But a boring, sober, steady hand will feel like the first step on the road back to a functional country after the play centre politics of the past decade.
Quote from: Iberian Red on June 13, 2024, 05:11:59 pmQuote from: Ldr on June 13, 2024, 03:42:24 pmQuote from: Sprotyrover on June 13, 2024, 03:25:20 pmThere isn’t much scope for Labours very modest plans, no Piggy Banks to plunder, it’s going to be even austerity I might decide to make a few Bob chasing Tax Dodgers that job is just up my street!Tax expats more, no representation without taxation!!Very hypocritical, the other week you were saying people should only vote where they pay tax ans Social Security!!!!!It's a great slogan tho,sounds like something from the student(singular) union tory party piss up. Deliberately paraphrasing the American revolution Iberian. Yes people should only vote where they pay tax so expats should pay here to vote here, I’m been consistent there
Quote from: Ldr on June 13, 2024, 03:42:24 pmQuote from: Sprotyrover on June 13, 2024, 03:25:20 pmThere isn’t much scope for Labours very modest plans, no Piggy Banks to plunder, it’s going to be even austerity I might decide to make a few Bob chasing Tax Dodgers that job is just up my street!Tax expats more, no representation without taxation!!Very hypocritical, the other week you were saying people should only vote where they pay tax ans Social Security!!!!!It's a great slogan tho,sounds like something from the student(singular) union tory party piss up.
Quote from: Sprotyrover on June 13, 2024, 03:25:20 pmThere isn’t much scope for Labours very modest plans, no Piggy Banks to plunder, it’s going to be even austerity I might decide to make a few Bob chasing Tax Dodgers that job is just up my street!Tax expats more, no representation without taxation!!
There isn’t much scope for Labours very modest plans, no Piggy Banks to plunder, it’s going to be even austerity I might decide to make a few Bob chasing Tax Dodgers that job is just up my street!
Quote from: Ldr on June 13, 2024, 05:25:53 pmQuote from: Iberian Red on June 13, 2024, 05:11:59 pmQuote from: Ldr on June 13, 2024, 03:42:24 pmQuote from: Sprotyrover on June 13, 2024, 03:25:20 pmThere isn’t much scope for Labours very modest plans, no Piggy Banks to plunder, it’s going to be even austerity I might decide to make a few Bob chasing Tax Dodgers that job is just up my street!Tax expats more, no representation without taxation!!Very hypocritical, the other week you were saying people should only vote where they pay tax ans Social Security!!!!!It's a great slogan tho,sounds like something from the student(singular) union tory party piss up. Deliberately paraphrasing the American revolution Iberian. Yes people should only vote where they pay tax so expats should pay here to vote here, I’m been consistent thereI am familiar with where it came from.
This is exactly the reason why Labour has to occupy the centre ground. It's looking more and more like Farage has dealt the knockout blow to this version of the Tory party. And he's already talking about a merger after the election with him as leader.I've been saying for months that if that happens, which way the centrist Tory voters jump will determine the medium term future of this country.The Left aren't going to want to hear this, but there just aren't enough votes on the Left to keep out a right wing party if RefUK and the usual Tory voters join forces. If Labour can keep just a tenth or a fifth of normal Tory voters from jumping into bed with Farage, then he can be kept out.
LD manifestos mean less than nothing. Clegg campaigned in 2010 on the line that they were well to the left of Labour.Then immediately signed up to the most ridiculous and damaging right wing ideological economic policy since the War.They know they will never form a Govt on their own, so they can promise whatever they want in a manifesto. The problem comes, as Clegg found out, when you go into coalition supporting everything you said you were dead against.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 13, 2024, 09:09:16 pmLD manifestos mean less than nothing. Clegg campaigned in 2010 on the line that they were well to the left of Labour.Then immediately signed up to the most ridiculous and damaging right wing ideological economic policy since the War.They know they will never form a Govt on their own, so they can promise whatever they want in a manifesto. The problem comes, as Clegg found out, when you go into coalition supporting everything you said you were dead against.Is that a yes or a no?
BSTWould you say that Labour are currently to the right of the Lib Dems looking at the manifestos?
Quote from: DonnyOsmond on June 13, 2024, 09:41:06 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 13, 2024, 09:09:16 pmLD manifestos mean less than nothing. Clegg campaigned in 2010 on the line that they were well to the left of Labour.Then immediately signed up to the most ridiculous and damaging right wing ideological economic policy since the War.They know they will never form a Govt on their own, so they can promise whatever they want in a manifesto. The problem comes, as Clegg found out, when you go into coalition supporting everything you said you were dead against.Is that a yes or a no?It's a "That's a non-question because no-one knows how right or left the LDs are till they have to decide." Sorry, I thought I'd made that clear.
Watching the TV debate - Farage is managing to get progressively thicker, whilst Reform are getting higher in the polls, and he personally is apparently the most popular leader in the country right now. Bonkers.
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on June 13, 2024, 10:08:07 pmWatching the TV debate - Farage is managing to get progressively thicker, whilst Reform are getting higher in the polls, and he personally is apparently the most popular leader in the country right now. Bonkers.That might be your opinion, but many people, including me, will disagree with you regarding his performance. Love him or loathe him he was very convincing putting his points across.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 13, 2024, 09:54:34 pmQuote from: DonnyOsmond on June 13, 2024, 09:41:06 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 13, 2024, 09:09:16 pmLD manifestos mean less than nothing. Clegg campaigned in 2010 on the line that they were well to the left of Labour.Then immediately signed up to the most ridiculous and damaging right wing ideological economic policy since the War.They know they will never form a Govt on their own, so they can promise whatever they want in a manifesto. The problem comes, as Clegg found out, when you go into coalition supporting everything you said you were dead against.Is that a yes or a no?It's a "That's a non-question because no-one knows how right or left the LDs are till they have to decide." Sorry, I thought I'd made that clear.And I made my question (not a non-question) pretty clear. I also said “looking at the manifestos” not “looking at what Nick Clegg did 10 years ago in a coalition where he was outnumbered by 305 to 57”.
Quote from: DonnyOsmond on June 13, 2024, 09:41:06 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 13, 2024, 09:09:16 pmLD manifestos mean less than nothing. Clegg campaigned in 2010 on the line that they were well to the left of Labour.Then immediately signed up to the most ridiculous and damaging right wing ideological economic policy since the War.They know they will never form a Govt on their own, so they can promise whatever they want in a manifesto. The problem comes, as Clegg found out, when you go into coalition supporting everything you said you were dead against.Is that a yes or a no?It's a "That's a non-question because no-one knows how right or left the LDs are till they have to decide." Sorry, I thought I'd made that clear.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 13, 2024, 08:59:48 pmThis is exactly the reason why Labour has to occupy the centre ground. It's looking more and more like Farage has dealt the knockout blow to this version of the Tory party. And he's already talking about a merger after the election with him as leader.I've been saying for months that if that happens, which way the centrist Tory voters jump will determine the medium term future of this country.The Left aren't going to want to hear this, but there just aren't enough votes on the Left to keep out a right wing party if RefUK and the usual Tory voters join forces. If Labour can keep just a tenth or a fifth of normal Tory voters from jumping into bed with Farage, then he can be kept out.I think the overall majority are in the central portion be that centre right or left. Farage just is not going to attract those conservatives who are not particularly right wing just as labour under Starmer aren't going to attract the left if their policies remain unchanged ( I suspect they'll move left post election again).We appear to keep pushing these parties with a coalition of policies and wings, we seem unable to have true principled parties that you can really get behind.Let's be honest labour or Tories, the policies announced mean very little change for any of us. Labour will win by being not the Tories, the Tory leadership is a joke and the other parties are just protesting.Farage is a real danger in future, he's got that knack of pulling in the left and right with his policies, but I still don't see it's strong enough to attract the vast majority in the centre, unless labour massively struggle (and I feel they are going to find it very hard).
Quote from: big fat yorkshire pudding on June 14, 2024, 08:08:48 amQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on June 13, 2024, 08:59:48 pmThis is exactly the reason why Labour has to occupy the centre ground. It's looking more and more like Farage has dealt the knockout blow to this version of the Tory party. And he's already talking about a merger after the election with him as leader.I've been saying for months that if that happens, which way the centrist Tory voters jump will determine the medium term future of this country.The Left aren't going to want to hear this, but there just aren't enough votes on the Left to keep out a right wing party if RefUK and the usual Tory voters join forces. If Labour can keep just a tenth or a fifth of normal Tory voters from jumping into bed with Farage, then he can be kept out.I think the overall majority are in the central portion be that centre right or left. Farage just is not going to attract those conservatives who are not particularly right wing just as labour under Starmer aren't going to attract the left if their policies remain unchanged ( I suspect they'll move left post election again).We appear to keep pushing these parties with a coalition of policies and wings, we seem unable to have true principled parties that you can really get behind.Let's be honest labour or Tories, the policies announced mean very little change for any of us. Labour will win by being not the Tories, the Tory leadership is a joke and the other parties are just protesting.Farage is a real danger in future, he's got that knack of pulling in the left and right with his policies, but I still don't see it's strong enough to attract the vast majority in the centre, unless labour massively struggle (and I feel they are going to find it very hard).I think that during their first term, it's going to be all about creating a steady ship for Labour. However, there are some key differences that make them stand out from the Tories for me. For example VAT on private schools and a commitment to supporting food sustainability are different from what the Tories intend to do.
The point is that the LD's entire strategy is based on APPEARING to be more left wing than Labour to try and grab some votes of disillusioned Labour voters. The Greens are trying to do the same thing by saying they'd have a massive programme of increased public spending and increase the overall tax take by 3-4% of GDP, at a time when we already have the highest tax take since the War.They can both do that to grab votes off Labour while knowing there's zero chance of having to put that into action.