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They have pure Proportional Representation in The Netherlands and the largest party there is Geert Wilders far-right Freedom Party. Careful what you wish for…
Surely the winners under PR would be Reform? Would that change anyone’s mind on PR? UKIP would have had a lot more power in parliament about 10 years ago as well.
Id say looking at what a PR devolved government would achieve when comparing what it may look like on current voting intentions is probably the wrong way to look at it.For every vote for an extreme right/left faction you would have counter votes for centre/greens/progressive parties. With the electorate knowing that their vote will now count regardless of where they are located would allow people to express what they want from politicians rather than being told this is what you get.The uptake should also increase proportionately.For people also worried about extreme elements then the counter balancing nature of a system like this would produce all the checks and balances required.The only "democratic state" that it doesn't seem to work properly in is places like Isreal when you have a very small extremist party holding the balance of power and having far greater influence then their representation should entail. Very much doubt this would happen in this country due to a more balance political outlook overall.We don't have bogie men under the bed in this country, people of a delicate nature can relax!We should never be allowing parties with 36/40 % of the overall vote to take charge, its patently undemocratic.This country needs a massive shake up, it should start with an initiative like this and then kick on.
I've supported PR for many years and still do today.I'd be a lot more sympathetic to those on the right if they'd not suddenly been converted to the cause by the fact that Labour will win this time.No system is ever perfect though. If we had PR in this country, it's almost guaranteed that the LDs would be in every single Government.
Quote from: danumdon on May 27, 2024, 12:10:09 pmId say looking at what a PR devolved government would achieve when comparing what it may look like on current voting intentions is probably the wrong way to look at it.For every vote for an extreme right/left faction you would have counter votes for centre/greens/progressive parties. With the electorate knowing that their vote will now count regardless of where they are located would allow people to express what they want from politicians rather than being told this is what you get.The uptake should also increase proportionately.For people also worried about extreme elements then the counter balancing nature of a system like this would produce all the checks and balances required.The only "democratic state" that it doesn't seem to work properly in is places like Isreal when you have a very small extremist party holding the balance of power and having far greater influence then their representation should entail. Very much doubt this would happen in this country due to a more balance political outlook overall.We don't have bogie men under the bed in this country, people of a delicate nature can relax!We should never be allowing parties with 36/40 % of the overall vote to take charge, its patently undemocratic.This country needs a massive shake up, it should start with an initiative like this and then kick on.Do you think Geert Wilders is extreme? Or Farage?If Farage had got all those seats BB mentions in 2015. He would be a rather powerful politician in this country. The Conservatives would have perhaps gone in to a coalition with him instead of the DUP in 2017.
Id say looking at what a PR devolved government would achieve when comparing what it may look like on current voting intentions is probably the wrong way to look at it.For every vote for an extreme right/left faction you would have counter votes for centre/greens/progressive parties. With the electorate knowing that their vote will now count regardless of where they are located would allow people to express what they want from politicians rather than being told this is what you get.The uptake should also increase proportionately.For people also worried about extreme elements then the counter balancing nature of a system like this would produce all the checks and balances required.The only "democratic state" that it doesn't seem to work properly in is places like Isreal when you have a very small extremist party holding the balance of power and having far greater influence then their representation should entail. Very much doubt this would happen in this country due to a more balance political outlook overall.We don't have bogie men under the bed in this country, people of a delicate nature can relax!We should never be allowing parties with 36/40 % of the overall vote to take charge, its patently undemocratic.This country needs a massive shake up, it should start with an initiative like this and then kick on.
Quote from: ncRover on May 27, 2024, 12:31:09 pmQuote from: danumdon on May 27, 2024, 12:10:09 pmId say looking at what a PR devolved government would achieve when comparing what it may look like on current voting intentions is probably the wrong way to look at it.For every vote for an extreme right/left faction you would have counter votes for centre/greens/progressive parties. With the electorate knowing that their vote will now count regardless of where they are located would allow people to express what they want from politicians rather than being told this is what you get.The uptake should also increase proportionately.For people also worried about extreme elements then the counter balancing nature of a system like this would produce all the checks and balances required.The only "democratic state" that it doesn't seem to work properly in is places like Isreal when you have a very small extremist party holding the balance of power and having far greater influence then their representation should entail. Very much doubt this would happen in this country due to a more balance political outlook overall.We don't have bogie men under the bed in this country, people of a delicate nature can relax!We should never be allowing parties with 36/40 % of the overall vote to take charge, its patently undemocratic.This country needs a massive shake up, it should start with an initiative like this and then kick on.Do you think Geert Wilders is extreme? Or Farage?If Farage had got all those seats BB mentions in 2015. He would be a rather powerful politician in this country. The Conservatives would have perhaps gone in to a coalition with him instead of the DUP in 2017.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/26/the-guardian-view-on-the-netherlands-a-radical-right-reset-will-challenge-european-unityLooks like they already have Wilders number. He can't stand as leader and has had to compromise all his extreme policies to enable others to join his alliance for government. The indication is that this coalition will more than likely still fail.In effect this is what PR should do with its checks and balances, the same thing had happened in Italy with Meloni having to temper her policies.Farage, never going to happen.
Quote from: danumdon on May 27, 2024, 12:46:11 pmQuote from: ncRover on May 27, 2024, 12:31:09 pmQuote from: danumdon on May 27, 2024, 12:10:09 pmId say looking at what a PR devolved government would achieve when comparing what it may look like on current voting intentions is probably the wrong way to look at it.For every vote for an extreme right/left faction you would have counter votes for centre/greens/progressive parties. With the electorate knowing that their vote will now count regardless of where they are located would allow people to express what they want from politicians rather than being told this is what you get.The uptake should also increase proportionately.For people also worried about extreme elements then the counter balancing nature of a system like this would produce all the checks and balances required.The only "democratic state" that it doesn't seem to work properly in is places like Isreal when you have a very small extremist party holding the balance of power and having far greater influence then their representation should entail. Very much doubt this would happen in this country due to a more balance political outlook overall.We don't have bogie men under the bed in this country, people of a delicate nature can relax!We should never be allowing parties with 36/40 % of the overall vote to take charge, its patently undemocratic.This country needs a massive shake up, it should start with an initiative like this and then kick on.Do you think Geert Wilders is extreme? Or Farage?If Farage had got all those seats BB mentions in 2015. He would be a rather powerful politician in this country. The Conservatives would have perhaps gone in to a coalition with him instead of the DUP in 2017.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/26/the-guardian-view-on-the-netherlands-a-radical-right-reset-will-challenge-european-unityLooks like they already have Wilders number. He can't stand as leader and has had to compromise all his extreme policies to enable others to join his alliance for government. The indication is that this coalition will more than likely still fail.In effect this is what PR should do with its checks and balances, the same thing had happened in Italy with Meloni having to temper her policies.Farage, never going to happen.That all makes sense actually, thank you.My worry with PR is that it would just turn in to a far-left v far-right circus. With either side getting more riled up if their polar opposites got more power.But I guess if those parts of the population feel more represented in the democratic process they are less likely to get more cynical and extreme. (Less talk of “the elites”).
Quote from: ncRover on May 27, 2024, 12:31:09 pmQuote from: danumdon on May 27, 2024, 12:10:09 pmId say looking at what a PR devolved government would achieve when comparing what it may look like on current voting intentions is probably the wrong way to look at it.For every vote for an extreme right/left faction you would have counter votes for centre/greens/progressive parties. With the electorate knowing that their vote will now count regardless of where they are located would allow people to express what they want from politicians rather than being told this is what you get.The uptake should also increase proportionately.For people also worried about extreme elements then the counter balancing nature of a system like this would produce all the checks and balances required.The only "democratic state" that it doesn't seem to work properly in is places like Isreal when you have a very small extremist party holding the balance of power and having far greater influence then their representation should entail. Very much doubt this would happen in this country due to a more balance political outlook overall.We don't have bogie men under the bed in this country, people of a delicate nature can relax!We should never be allowing parties with 36/40 % of the overall vote to take charge, its patently undemocratic.This country needs a massive shake up, it should start with an initiative like this and then kick on.Do you think Geert Wilders is extreme? Or Farage?If Farage had got all those seats BB mentions in 2015. He would be a rather powerful politician in this country. The Conservatives would have perhaps gone in to a coalition with him instead of the DUP in 2017.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/26/the-guardian-view-on-the-netherlands-a-radical-right-reset-will-challenge-european-unityLooks like they already have Wilders number. He can't stand as leader and has had to compromise all his extreme policies to enable others to join his alliance for government. The indication is that this coalition will more than likely still fail.In effect this is what PR should do with its checks and balances, the same thing had happened in Italy with Meloni having to temper her policies.Farage, never going to happen.
Quote from: danumdon on May 27, 2024, 12:10:09 pmId say looking at what a PR devolved government would achieve when comparing what it may look like on current voting intentions is probably the wrong way to look at it.For every vote for an extreme right/left faction you would have counter votes for centre/greens/progressive parties. With the electorate knowing that their vote will now count regardless of where they are located would allow people to express what they want from politicians rather than being told this is what you get.The uptake should also increase proportionately.For people also worried about extreme elements then the counter balancing nature of a system like this would produce all the checks and balances required.The only "democratic state" that it doesn't seem to work properly in is places like Isreal when you have a very small extremist party holding the balance of power and having far greater influence then their representation should entail. Very much doubt this would happen in this country due to a more balance political outlook overall.We don't have bogie men under the bed in this country, people of a delicate nature can relax!We should never be allowing parties with 36/40 % of the overall vote to take charge, its patently undemocratic.This country needs a massive shake up, it should start with an initiative like this and then kick on.Do you think Geert Wilders is extreme? Or Farage?If Farage had got all those seats BB mentions in 2015. He would be a rather powerful politician in this country. The Conservatives would have perhaps gone in to a coalition with him instead of the DUP in 2017.
Id say looking at what a PR devolved government would achieve when comparing what it may look like on current voting intentions is probably the wrong way to look at it.For every vote for an extreme right/left faction you would have counter votes for centre/greens/progressive parties. With the electorate knowing that their vote will now count regardless of where they are located would allow people to express what they want from politicians rather than being told this is what you get.The uptake should also increase proportionately.For people also worried about extreme elements then the counter balancing nature of a system like this would produce all the checks and balances required.The only "democratic state" that it doesn't seem to work properly in is places like Isreal when you have a very small extremist party holding the balance of power and having far greater influence then their representation should entail. Very much doubt this would happen in this country due to a more balance political outlook overall.We don't have bogie men under the bed in this country, people of a delicate nature can relax!We should never be allowing parties with 36/40 % of the overall vote to take charge, its patently undemocratic.This country needs a massive shake up, it should start with an initiative like this and then kick on.
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on May 27, 2024, 12:30:00 pmI've supported PR for many years and still do today.I'd be a lot more sympathetic to those on the right if they'd not suddenly been converted to the cause by the fact that Labour will win this time.No system is ever perfect though. If we had PR in this country, it's almost guaranteed that the LDs would be in every single Government.Or the SNP. That'd rile the little Englanders with the Scottish holding sway over a different country!