Gareth Southgate

[drfchound]

I have been thinking about the times when other top football countries are having a dodgy spell but get through with a late goal and people say that good teams always find away to win.
It is fair to say that England are a good team but some of our fans can’t bring themselves to say the same thing about us.
If we do go on the win the tournament I’m sure there will be people who say we have not did it because we had the easy side of the draw rather than celebrate the win.

[sf9944]

Portugal just drawn with Slovenia 0-0, with a very similar performance to the one against England last week.
Shearer et al are all waxing lyrical about how good Slovenia defended, whereas last week when we drew Slovenia didn’t get a mention, it was all about how bad we were.
That tells you everything about the media

My wife pointed the exact same thing out.

I’ve never understood the power of the media to determine the nations narrative so completely….but it certainly seems to do so

[McCammon egg n chips]

I've felt very little enthusiasm about England in the run up to this tournament. Usually you get the sense the country is ramping up, but there's just no vibe this time.

And personally I don't feel excited to watch us play. Our games haven't felt like big occasions. I felt relief when we scored, not really excitement. I'm genuinely more excited about watching Rovers first match in August than England in the Quarter Finals on Saturday.

Maybe if we sneak through to the Semis I'll somehow get the buzz back, but for now I feel like I'm going through the motions.

[Pancho Regan]

As a slight aside, I must put in a word about Declan Rice.

In a team which has been underwhelming in its performances I think he has been an exception. He has put in a huge amount of effort all over the pitch and was our best player by a mile in the win over Slovakia.

If every England player had matched Rice's performances I think we would have a very different mood on this board.

[drfcsteve]

I've felt very little enthusiasm about England in the run up to this tournament. Usually you get the sense the country is ramping up, but there's just no vibe this time.

And personally I don't feel excited to watch us play. Our games haven't felt like big occasions. I felt relief when we scored, not really excitement. I'm genuinely more excited about watching Rovers first match in August than England in the Quarter Finals on Saturday.

Maybe if we sneak through to the Semis I'll somehow get the buzz back, but for now I feel like I'm going through the motions.

Completely agree about the buzz. I’ve loved the Euros and World Cup my whole life and England playing in them has always been a big event. This Euros have been great but this time watching England has just felt like a chore. I really really hope that changes on Saturday and it’s not our last match.

[bobbymax]

As a slight aside, I must put in a word about Declan Rice.

In a team which has been underwhelming in its performances I think he has been an exception. He has put in a huge amount of effort all over the pitch and was our best player by a mile in the win over Slovakia.

If every England player had matched Rice's performances I think we would have a very different mood on this board.

I agree and I think he and Mainoo are going to be the engine-room for England for many years behind Bellingham.

[dickos1]

Fair enough Portugal struggled against Slovenia but they gave it a much better go than England did, and might have won in normal time if Ronaldo ever let his better placed team mates have a go at free kicks and penalties.

A question for the Southgate fans, what is it about how we’re playing you’re enjoying? What do you think we’re doing well? Do you think scoring in the 95th minute was all part of the master plan?

Not sure anyone has suggested we’re playing well!
But it’s tournament football, the successful teams are usually pragmatic and grind out results.
That’s what we’re doing.

Like Germany, Spain, Brazil, Argentina pragmatism’s?

When did Germany, Spain or Brazil win anything last?

Italy won the last euros by being pragmatic, Portugal the one before being even more pragmatic

[Colin C No.3]

Fair enough Portugal struggled against Slovenia but they gave it a much better go than England did, and might have won in normal time if Ronaldo ever let his better placed team mates have a go at free kicks and penalties.

A question for the Southgate fans, what is it about how we’re playing you’re enjoying? What do you think we’re doing well? Do you think scoring in the 95th minute was all part of the master plan?

Not sure anyone has suggested we’re playing well!
But it’s tournament football, the successful teams are usually pragmatic and grind out results.
That’s what we’re doing.

Like Germany, Spain, Brazil, Argentina pragmatism’s?

When did Germany, Spain or Brazil win anything last?

Italy won the last euros by being pragmatic, Portugal the one before being even more pragmatic

Germany & Spain are the most successful teams (jointly) in winning the Euros. Spain will win this one.

Brazil have won more World Cups than any other country. They are the only country in the world to have qualified for every competition.

[dickos1]

Football has changed significantly.
Teams like Albania, Slovakia, Austria, are no longer the whipping boys.
France have probably the most pragmatic manager there is and look at the success he’s achieved.
If we win this euros playing how we are at the minute nobody will care

[Michael Shaw]

I've felt very little enthusiasm about England in the run up to this tournament. Usually you get the sense the country is ramping up, but there's just no vibe this time.

And personally I don't feel excited to watch us play. Our games haven't felt like big occasions. I felt relief when we scored, not really excitement. I'm genuinely more excited about watching Rovers first match in August than England in the Quarter Finals on Saturday.

Maybe if we sneak through to the Semis I'll somehow get the buzz back, but for now I feel like I'm going through the motions.

Completely agree about the buzz. I’ve loved the Euros and World Cup my whole life and England playing in them has always been a big event. This Euros have been great but this time watching England has just felt like a chore. I really really hope that changes on Saturday and it’s not our last match.

I can understand the lack of enthusiasm at the way we are playing and there is not a buzz about the team, but I don't think that means the players are crap or that Southgate should go. Will England win against Spain, France and Germany, probably not but right now we are still in the mix with the best of them.

[sedwardsdrfc]

There’s zero buzz this time. Normally they’d be loads now it’s knockouts and we know our side of the draw but it’s just not there.

Everyone I speak to just assumes we’ll go out to the 1st decent team we play. Normally we go the other way but I can’t see anyone singing “it’s coming home” the way we are playing.

[Draytonian III]

Portugal just drawn with Slovenia 0-0, with a very similar performance to the one against England last week.
Shearer et al are all waxing lyrical about how good Slovenia defended, whereas last week when we drew Slovenia didn’t get a mention, it was all about how bad we were.
That tells you everything about the media

My wife pointed the exact same thing out.

I’ve never understood the power of the media to determine the nations narrative so completely….but it certainly seems to do so

The British media is the worst in the world, they build things and people up and then take immense delight in destroying them. Hopefully in my lifetime every national newspaper will go bust

[drfchound]

Portugal just drawn with Slovenia 0-0, with a very similar performance to the one against England last week.
Shearer et al are all waxing lyrical about how good Slovenia defended, whereas last week when we drew Slovenia didn’t get a mention, it was all about how bad we were.
That tells you everything about the media

My wife pointed the exact same thing out.

I’ve never understood the power of the media to determine the nations narrative so completely….but it certainly seems to do so

The British media is the worst in the world, they build things and people up and then take immense delight in destroying them. Hopefully in my lifetime every national newspaper will go bust

…..and that attitude carries on into social media, as clearly portrayed on this forum.

[grayx]

Hope Southgate watched the holland game today. Thats what you do when you go a goal ahead, carry on attacking & get a second and third. Not resort to a flat back 10.

[sedwardsdrfc]

On the media/fan scrutiny I’ve seen a lot of foreign players who’ve been in England for years say it’s just the same if not worse in their home country.

[dickos1]

There’s zero buzz this time. Normally they’d be loads now it’s knockouts and we know our side of the draw but it’s just not there.

Everyone I speak to just assumes we’ll go out to the 1st decent team we play. Normally we go the other way but I can’t see anyone singing “it’s coming home” the way we are playing.

Atmosphere out in Germany is great, folk back home take too much notice of the negative media.
People like Neville, shearer, Lineker who failed massively year in year out for England and then they sit there slagging this team off, a team that’s done far better than any of them could muster up

[drfchound]

On the media/fan scrutiny I’ve seen a lot of foreign players who’ve been in England for years say it’s just the same if not worse in their home country.

Yes, it could well be.
Possibly because we have emotional involvement when England play but not when watching two countries with who we have no feelings for, is the reason why we enjoy watching some of the other matches.

[Alan Southstand]

No, hound, we enjoy watching teams playing front foot, attacking football. Not the dreary negative crap we’ve had to suffer, so far, from England. Hopefully, we turn the page v Switzerland, but I, somehow, very much doubt it.

[drfchound]

Let’s hope we have a good day then.
It is still excruciating though even when playing well if it is a close game.

[BillyStubbsTears]

My point about Foden is one I've been making regularly for years about English stars.

Yes they are quite superb in club football.

But here's the thing. International football isn't club football.

In club football, players are coached intensively as to what their role is in a well-drilled machine.

That is far, far less the case in international football, especially in tournaments. Players have to adapt, improvise, deal with novel situations that they don't have drilled into them until it is second nature. They have to deal with formations and colleagues who are not what they are used to.

My contention is that it takes a different form of football intelligence to excel in tournament football than it does in club football.

Of course, many players can excel at both. But there has to be some reason why, regularly, English players who are superlative in English club football, never quite reach those peaks in international tournaments. Foden is a perfect example.

It can't all be about managers, because we've tried every type there is.

[drfcsteve]

If we’re talking about Foden specifically, he has only played (at senior level) under Southgate.

He was player of the tournament when the under 17s won the World Cup under Steve Cooper. And he’s premier league player of the season under Guardiola. So the weak link does appear to be Southgate here not Foden.

[Avsuptem]

My point about Foden is one I've been making regularly for years about English stars.

Yes they are quite superb in club football.

But here's the thing. International football isn't club football.

In club football, players are coached intensively as to what their role is in a well-drilled machine.

That is far, far less the case in international football, especially in tournaments. Players have to adapt, improvise, deal with novel situations that they don't have drilled into them until it is second nature. They have to deal with formations and colleagues who are not what they are used to.

My contention is that it takes a different form of football intelligence to excel in tournament football than it does in club football.

Of course, many players can excel at both. But there has to be some reason why, regularly, English players who are superlative in English club football, never quite reach those peaks in international tournaments. Foden is a perfect example.

It can't all be about managers, because we've tried every type there is.

All very true but the Manager has a massive influence. Alf Ramsey managed to get the best out of his squad and did not select his best players, instead he built a team.
For me this Southgate side seem to be lacking in the total commitment that we see from a Rovers team under Grant McCann.

[dickos1]

One of the main strengths of Southgate is that he’s bridged the gap with players. Lots of players have played better for the country than their club which is why he’s got so much previous criticism about players being picked when not in good form, because he knew they’d done well for him.
Maguire, Henderson, Phillips, Sterling, rashford, these are all players that were struggling for their clubs but he stuck with them and they were excellent for their country.

This tournament he’s moved away from that slightly and picked all the players in good club form, and at the moment it’s not clicking

[MachoMadness]

One of the main strengths of Southgate is that he’s bridged the gap with players. Lots of players have played better for the country than their club which is why he’s got so much previous criticism about players being picked when not in good form, because he knew they’d done well for him.
Maguire, Henderson, Phillips, Sterling, rashford, these are all players that were struggling for their clubs but he stuck with them and they were excellent for their country.

This tournament he’s moved away from that slightly and picked all the players in good club form, and at the moment it’s not clicking

This is a fair point. Granted his hand has slightly been forced by injuries in some cases, but when he made the statement about missing Kalvin Phillips my first thought was "well why not pick him then?"

The answer is obviously that he's hardly managed to get a game all season and people would go spare. But does that matter if he does the business for England and improves the performance of the team?

Same goes for Sterling or Rashford. If they were in the squad then does it get easier to drop Foden and add in a player who is more comfortable in that left sided role? Or does picking players bang out of form for their clubs come with more risks? Football, eh?

[Lesonthewest]

I think Lineker, Shearer etc have been spot on in their comments, we have been shite all tournament, same as most of us have seen before our very eyes. Most people I've spoken to agree. Results good, performances absolute garbage. Don't really care how other countries have struggled or whatever, just giving opinions on England.

[dickos1]

I think Lineker, Shearer etc have been spot on in their comments, we have been shite all tournament, same as most of us have seen before our very eyes. Most people I've spoken to agree. Results good, performances absolute garbage. Don't really care how other countries have struggled or whatever, just giving opinions on England.

I think shearer and Lineker have been embarrassing. Imagine coming out and slagging off people who have done much better than you ever did yourselves in that very same position.

[scawsby steve]

There’s zero buzz this time. Normally they’d be loads now it’s knockouts and we know our side of the draw but it’s just not there.

Everyone I speak to just assumes we’ll go out to the 1st decent team we play. Normally we go the other way but I can’t see anyone singing “it’s coming home” the way we are playing.

Atmosphere out in Germany is great, folk back home take too much notice of the negative media.
People like Neville, shearer, Lineker who failed massively year in year out for England and then they sit there slagging this team off, a team that’s done far better than any of them could muster up

What utter rubbish. Lineker and Shearer were both prolific scorers for England, with practically 1 in 2 ratios.

Lineker even won the Golden Boots award with the most goals at the 1986 World Cup.

[Lesonthewest]

I think Lineker, Shearer etc have been spot on in their comments, we have been shite all tournament, same as most of us have seen before our very eyes. Most people I've spoken to agree. Results good, performances absolute garbage. Don't really care how other countries have struggled or whatever, just giving opinions on England.

I think shearer and Lineker have been embarrassing. Imagine coming out and slagging off people who have done much better than you ever did yourselves in that very same position.

Don't think they, or anyone else should be 'embarrassed' for offering their honest opinions on England's performances, no matter what they've done in the past.

[Copps is Magic]

I think at this stage people should support the team.

[dickos1]

There’s zero buzz this time. Normally they’d be loads now it’s knockouts and we know our side of the draw but it’s just not there.

Everyone I speak to just assumes we’ll go out to the 1st decent team we play. Normally we go the other way but I can’t see anyone singing “it’s coming home” the way we are playing.

Atmosphere out in Germany is great, folk back home take too much notice of the negative media.
People like Neville, shearer, Lineker who failed massively year in year out for England and then they sit there slagging this team off, a team that’s done far better than any of them could muster up

What utter rubbish. Lineker and Shearer were both prolific scorers for England, with practically 1 in 2 ratios.

Lineker even won the Golden Boots award with the most goals at the 1986 World Cup.

What on earth does that have to do with anything?
They were both part of disastrous England teams yet they sit there slagging this one off.
One that’s performed much better than the ones they played for