Farage

[SydneyRover]

  There is nothing wrong with the funding of the NHS, its the staff that work in it.
  Its easy millions of pounds worth of equipment are idle for 10 to 16 hrs in every 24.
  Introduce 24 hr working practices The staff will love four on four off days, afters, night shifts.

I wonder where all the new health care workers will come from to do the radiography, scans, tests and where all the extra doctors will come from to provide the services required?

The NHS budget will have to rise substantially to pay for and the extra staff and out-of-hours payments. Patient transport systems will also need a boost and I can see public transport would have to improve also.

Have you done any logistics/costs forecasts selby?

[danumdon]

Does anyone know why the NHS in a similar manner to the MOD and the Railways have to pay through the roof prices for any item that's required to be used in the service.

I know why the Military and Railways are straddled with their procurement standards but i would of thought that there should be massive potential to reduce costs and get better value for their money in the NHS.

Anyone?

They get better value for money on purchases than any other health organisation on the planet

That’ does not answer my question, Evidence for this should have also been provided or do we assume you’ve made it up.

What I want to know, regardless of where we stand in the list of health service provision is why relatively cheap items that you and I could purchase for a fraction of the cost the NHS stump up,

Things like crutches, walking aids, supports, bandages, relatively mundane items that should be cheap. This is all before you start on things like drugs, medical supplies.

Some organisations, probably in cahoots with NHS procurement are making a killing, and in the process costing the service and us taxpayers millions in wasted funding.

Someday this will become a massive scandal that should of been tackled years ago.

[Ldr]

Does anyone know why the NHS in a similar manner to the MOD and the Railways have to pay through the roof prices for any item that's required to be used in the service.

I know why the Military and Railways are straddled with their procurement standards but i would of thought that there should be massive potential to reduce costs and get better value for their money in the NHS.

Anyone?

They get better value for money on purchases than any other health organisation on the planet

That’ does not answer my question, Evidence for this should have also been provided or do we assume you’ve made it up.

What I want to know, regardless of where we stand in the list of health service provision is why relatively cheap items that you and I could purchase for a fraction of the cost the NHS stump up,

Things like crutches, walking aids, supports, bandages, relatively mundane items that should be cheap. This is all before you start on things like drugs, medical supplies.

Some organisations, probably in cahoots with NHS procurement are making a killing, and in the process costing the service and us taxpayers millions in wasted funding.

Someday this will become a massive scandal that should of been tackled years ago.

I can’t speak for all hospital trusts but we have a large pharmaceutical production facility up here and manufacture a lot of medications in house

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

  There is nothing wrong with the funding of the NHS, its the staff that work in it.
  Its easy millions of pounds worth of equipment are idle for 10 to 16 hrs in every 24.
  Introduce 24 hr working practices The staff will love four on four off days, afters, night shifts.

I wonder where all the new health care workers will come from to do the radiography, scans, tests and where all the extra doctors will come from to provide the services required?

The NHS budget will have to rise substantially to pay for and the extra staff and out-of-hours payments. Patient transport systems will also need a boost and I can see public transport would have to improve also.

Have you done any logistics/costs forecasts selby?

The big risk actually though is to solve the problems Labour want to in healthcare eg doctors' strikes will cost a huge amount of money.  It's quite clear that none of the political parties have costed this portion of their manifestos.  Nobody as yet seems to have a tangible solution.

[SydneyRover]

Does anyone know why the NHS in a similar manner to the MOD and the Railways have to pay through the roof prices for any item that's required to be used in the service.

I know why the Military and Railways are straddled with their procurement standards but i would of thought that there should be massive potential to reduce costs and get better value for their money in the NHS.

Anyone?

They get better value for money on purchases than any other health organisation on the planet

That’ does not answer my question, Evidence for this should have also been provided or do we assume you’ve made it up.

What I want to know, regardless of where we stand in the list of health service provision is why relatively cheap items that you and I could purchase for a fraction of the cost the NHS stump up,

Things like crutches, walking aids, supports, bandages, relatively mundane items that should be cheap. This is all before you start on things like drugs, medical supplies.

Some organisations, probably in cahoots with NHS procurement are making a killing, and in the process costing the service and us taxpayers millions in wasted funding.

Someday this will become a massive scandal that should of been tackled years ago.

Any proof dd?

[ncRover]

BFYP

I share your concern. But I also gave faith that the other 80% of us don't share those values.

The problem comes when people normalise Nige as being safe and ignore the core values of his party.

The conspiracy now is that it was all staged because the Reform volunteer does a bit of acting on the side.

[SydneyRover]

  There is nothing wrong with the funding of the NHS, its the staff that work in it.
  Its easy millions of pounds worth of equipment are idle for 10 to 16 hrs in every 24.
  Introduce 24 hr working practices The staff will love four on four off days, afters, night shifts.

I wonder where all the new health care workers will come from to do the radiography, scans, tests and where all the extra doctors will come from to provide the services required?

The NHS budget will have to rise substantially to pay for and the extra staff and out-of-hours payments. Patient transport systems will also need a boost and I can see public transport would have to improve also.

Have you done any logistics/costs forecasts selby?

The big risk actually though is to solve the problems Labour want to in healthcare eg doctors' strikes will cost a huge amount of money.  It's quite clear that none of the political parties have costed this portion of their manifestos.  Nobody as yet seems to have a tangible solution.

When you think about it pud, underpaying doctors, negligence of building maintenance and failure to build enough new hospitals etc was what allowed the tories to cut taxes. Then multiply it through the education and other budgets and you get to understand how the conjuring tricks worked.

Unfortunately a lot of the voting public and the media are now attuned to tax cuts leaving future governments little electoral width to increase taxes and solve the mountain of budgetary problems.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP

I share your concern. But I also gave faith that the other 80% of us don't share those values.

The problem comes when people normalise Nige as being safe and ignore the core values of his party.

The conspiracy now is that it was all staged because the Reform volunteer does a bit of acting on the side.

Like I say. If folk normalise and excuse this, it gets normalised.

[SydneyRover]

Tice, who runs green innovation up to make his company money and runs carbon neutral down to prospective voters.


''Richard Tice accused of hypocrisy over firm’s embrace of green tech
Reform chair is hostile to net zero but is CEO of company that boasted of ‘saving hundreds of tonnes of CO2’''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/28/richard-tice-company-green-tech-net-zero

[Sprotyrover]

  There is nothing wrong with the funding of the NHS, its the staff that work in it.
  Its easy millions of pounds worth of equipment are idle for 10 to 16 hrs in every 24.
  Introduce 24 hr working practices The staff will love four on four off days, afters, night shifts.

I wonder where all the new health care workers will come from to do the radiography, scans, tests and where all the extra doctors will come from to provide the services required?

The NHS budget will have to rise substantially to pay for and the extra staff and out-of-hours payments. Patient transport systems will also need a boost and I can see public transport would have to improve also.

Have you done any logistics/costs forecasts selby?

The big risk actually though is to solve the problems Labour want to in healthcare eg doctors' strikes will cost a huge amount of money.  It's quite clear that none of the political parties have costed this portion of their manifestos.  Nobody as yet seems to have a tangible solution.

When you think about it pud, underpaying doctors, negligence of building maintenance and failure to build enough new hospitals etc was what allowed the tories to cut taxes. Then multiply it through the education and other budgets and you get to understand how the conjuring tricks worked.

Unfortunately a lot of the voting public and the media are now attuned to tax cuts leaving future governments little electoral width to increase taxes and solve the mountain of budgetary problems.

Please evidence your hypothesis…fully ?

[SydneyRover]

Really sprotter?

''How the Tories Wrecked the Economy
This week's budget is set to be a fitting coda to 14 years of Tory economic misrule that will leave an incoming Labour government with few good options''

https://nixons.substack.com/p/how-the-tories-wrecked-the-economy

There are more articles like this than you can poke a stick at.

[danumdon]

Does anyone know why the NHS in a similar manner to the MOD and the Railways have to pay through the roof prices for any item that's required to be used in the service.

I know why the Military and Railways are straddled with their procurement standards but i would of thought that there should be massive potential to reduce costs and get better value for their money in the NHS.

Anyone?

They get better value for money on purchases than any other health organisation on the planet

That’ does not answer my question, Evidence for this should have also been provided or do we assume you’ve made it up.

What I want to know, regardless of where we stand in the list of health service provision is why relatively cheap items that you and I could purchase for a fraction of the cost the NHS stump up,

Things like crutches, walking aids, supports, bandages, relatively mundane items that should be cheap. This is all before you start on things like drugs, medical supplies.

Some organisations, probably in cahoots with NHS procurement are making a killing, and in the process costing the service and us taxpayers millions in wasted funding.

Someday this will become a massive scandal that should of been tackled years ago.

Any proof dd?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/health-service-medical-supplies-costs/health-service-medical-supplies-costs-bill-factsheet

Couldn't find a more up to date version, but its along the same lines.

[selby]

  Syd, plenty of companies with  24hr working practices have introduced that shift pattern, without increasing staff numbers, especially with expensive equipment to get the best economical use of capital outlay, and cheaper running costs, to the company especially electric at lower off peak costs and a shift allowance to the staff.
   The question I will ask you is, does the tax payer get the maximum return on their capital expenditure presently.
  And when foreign people use freely the NHS at great cost to the tax payer the doctors especially in the London Hospitals quote the hippocratic oath  as their duty to treat people who have not contributed to the system yet go on strike and refuse to treat people who have for a lifetime payed into the system and their education.
   It doesn't sit easily with me buddy and I would also introduce  a system that ensured they worked for the NHS for a minimum of ten years after qualifying in this country for nurses and doctors, they would not be the first to be indentured.
  They could always use their gap year to look for work in other countries I suppose, if any would have them to work three days a week that is.

[Filo]

  Filo if you reschedule twice now I would question if you really have to go at all.
  RTid88 I have a lot of experience of the NHS at Nottingham, Hull, York, and Doncaster having travelled to all In the case of York  for every day for four months, some decent treatment and some terrible organisation and indifference by others.
  Most jobs are a steady numbers with the front line overworked and if you are not related or friends of someone you have little chance of landing a job there.
  It just burns funds and the way the Labour party set up the funding they saddled hospitals with debt. 
  Like the comedy films of national service in the fifties just grab a clip board and you can get your ten thousand steps in a day up and down the corridors.

I never said I rescheduled twice, and I’ll trust a real Doctor over an amateur Doctor

[tyke1962]

According to the Sheffield Star the two Barnsley seats could be a pretty close run thing with only 5% separating Labour and Reform .

It will certainly be interesting when the polls close next week but I would expect Labour to hold on .

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/polls-show-reform-closing-in-on-labour-in-stronghold-barnsley-seats/ar-BB1p3tMy?ocid=socialshare

[selby]

  Filo, I used the word you badly, not intending to indicate I thought you had rescheduled and the word  anybody would have been more apt to express my thoughts.

[SydneyRover]

  Syd, plenty of companies with  24hr working practices have introduced that shift pattern, without increasing staff numbers, especially with expensive equipment to get the best economical use of capital outlay, and cheaper running costs, to the company especially electric at lower off peak costs and a shift allowance to the staff.
   The question I will ask you is, does the tax payer get the maximum return on their capital expenditure presently.
  And when foreign people use freely the NHS at great cost to the tax payer the doctors especially in the London Hospitals quote the hippocratic oath  as their duty to treat people who have not contributed to the system yet go on strike and refuse to treat people who have for a lifetime payed into the system and their education.
   It doesn't sit easily with me buddy and I would also introduce  a system that ensured they worked for the NHS for a minimum of ten years after qualifying in this country for nurses and doctors, they would not be the first to be indentured.
  They could always use their gap year to look for work in other countries I suppose, if any would have them to work three days a week that is.

Do any major hospitals in the world run all their services fully 24/7 apart from emergency is the question I ask you selby?

[SydneyRover]

Does anyone know why the NHS in a similar manner to the MOD and the Railways have to pay through the roof prices for any item that's required to be used in the service.

I know why the Military and Railways are straddled with their procurement standards but i would of thought that there should be massive potential to reduce costs and get better value for their money in the NHS.

Anyone?

They get better value for money on purchases than any other health organisation on the planet

That’ does not answer my question, Evidence for this should have also been provided or do we assume you’ve made it up.

What I want to know, regardless of where we stand in the list of health service provision is why relatively cheap items that you and I could purchase for a fraction of the cost the NHS stump up,

Things like crutches, walking aids, supports, bandages, relatively mundane items that should be cheap. This is all before you start on things like drugs, medical supplies.

Some organisations, probably in cahoots with NHS procurement are making a killing, and in the process costing the service and us taxpayers millions in wasted funding.

Someday this will become a massive scandal that should of been tackled years ago.

Any proof dd?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/health-service-medical-supplies-costs/health-service-medical-supplies-costs-bill-factsheet

Couldn't find a more up to date version, but its along the same lines.

Can't see anything that shows joe public can buy equipment cheaper than the nhs can, is there a comparison site you got your data from dd?

[BillyStubbsTears]

According to the Sheffield Star the two Barnsley seats could be a pretty close run thing with only 5% separating Labour and Reform .

It will certainly be interesting when the polls close next week but I would expect Labour to hold on .

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/polls-show-reform-closing-in-on-labour-in-stronghold-barnsley-seats/ar-BB1p3tMy?ocid=socialshare

There's a choice for you then Tyke. Real choice.

Do you allow one of Farage's mob to get in to represent you?

[SydneyRover]

  Syd, plenty of companies with  24hr working practices have introduced that shift pattern, without increasing staff numbers, especially with expensive equipment to get the best economical use of capital outlay, and cheaper running costs, to the company especially electric at lower off peak costs and a shift allowance to the staff.
   The question I will ask you is, does the tax payer get the maximum return on their capital expenditure presently.
  And when foreign people use freely the NHS at great cost to the tax payer the doctors especially in the London Hospitals quote the hippocratic oath  as their duty to treat people who have not contributed to the system yet go on strike and refuse to treat people who have for a lifetime payed into the system and their education.
   It doesn't sit easily with me buddy and I would also introduce  a system that ensured they worked for the NHS for a minimum of ten years after qualifying in this country for nurses and doctors, they would not be the first to be indentured.
  They could always use their gap year to look for work in other countries I suppose, if any would have them to work three days a week that is.

Do any major hospitals in the world run all their services fully 24/7 apart from emergency is the question I ask you selby?

bump

[Sprotyrover]

  Syd, plenty of companies with  24hr working practices have introduced that shift pattern, without increasing staff numbers, especially with expensive equipment to get the best economical use of capital outlay, and cheaper running costs, to the company especially electric at lower off peak costs and a shift allowance to the staff.
   The question I will ask you is, does the tax payer get the maximum return on their capital expenditure presently.
  And when foreign people use freely the NHS at great cost to the tax payer the doctors especially in the London Hospitals quote the hippocratic oath  as their duty to treat people who have not contributed to the system yet go on strike and refuse to treat people who have for a lifetime payed into the system and their education.
   It doesn't sit easily with me buddy and I would also introduce  a system that ensured they worked for the NHS for a minimum of ten years after qualifying in this country for nurses and doctors, they would not be the first to be indentured.
  They could always use their gap year to look for work in other countries I suppose, if any would have them to work three days a week that is.

Do any major hospitals in the world run all their services fully 24/7 apart from emergency is the question I ask you selby?

bump

Under procurement rules you have to get at least three quotes from competing companies , the last Labour Government brought that in after DONNYGATE.

[SydneyRover]

  Syd, plenty of companies with  24hr working practices have introduced that shift pattern, without increasing staff numbers, especially with expensive equipment to get the best economical use of capital outlay, and cheaper running costs, to the company especially electric at lower off peak costs and a shift allowance to the staff.
   The question I will ask you is, does the tax payer get the maximum return on their capital expenditure presently.
  And when foreign people use freely the NHS at great cost to the tax payer the doctors especially in the London Hospitals quote the hippocratic oath  as their duty to treat people who have not contributed to the system yet go on strike and refuse to treat people who have for a lifetime payed into the system and their education.
   It doesn't sit easily with me buddy and I would also introduce  a system that ensured they worked for the NHS for a minimum of ten years after qualifying in this country for nurses and doctors, they would not be the first to be indentured.
  They could always use their gap year to look for work in other countries I suppose, if any would have them to work three days a week that is.

Do any major hospitals in the world run all their services fully 24/7 apart from emergency is the question I ask you selby?

bump

Under procurement rules you have to get at least three quotes from competing companies , the last Labour Government brought that in after DONNYGATE.

What has that got to do with the above?

[SydneyRover]

  Syd, plenty of companies with  24hr working practices have introduced that shift pattern, without increasing staff numbers, especially with expensive equipment to get the best economical use of capital outlay, and cheaper running costs, to the company especially electric at lower off peak costs and a shift allowance to the staff.
   The question I will ask you is, does the tax payer get the maximum return on their capital expenditure presently.
  And when foreign people use freely the NHS at great cost to the tax payer the doctors especially in the London Hospitals quote the hippocratic oath  as their duty to treat people who have not contributed to the system yet go on strike and refuse to treat people who have for a lifetime payed into the system and their education.
   It doesn't sit easily with me buddy and I would also introduce  a system that ensured they worked for the NHS for a minimum of ten years after qualifying in this country for nurses and doctors, they would not be the first to be indentured.
  They could always use their gap year to look for work in other countries I suppose, if any would have them to work three days a week that is.

Do any major hospitals in the world run all their services fully 24/7 apart from emergency is the question I ask you selby?

bump

[selby]

  Syd answer my questions to you.
  As for my answer what other hospitals in the world do would not come into the equation only what happens in the NHS all the other hospitals all over the world are not in the NHS so no problem, and we should be looking for the best treatments for the nation at the best value for the investment, no hangers on, no spivs, and a staff committed to the best they can be.
 And if people didn't want to work there,  they would have to put their notice in, apparently they are leaving in droves now so what would be the difference.
  The answer to the nurse problem would be bring in two tier nursing like it used to be with in house progression if they choose to. and at least half the management side especially the top tiers of non medical staff.
  The present system is not fit for purpose, the present staffing is not fit for purpose, the present management are certainly unfit for purpose and the whole structure is a money spider for the pharma industry, and with the amounts of money involved the corruption in the Covid period that came to the surface was probably just the tip of the ice berg. 

[SydneyRover]

  Syd answer my questions to you.
  As for my answer what other hospitals in the world do would not come into the equation only what happens in the NHS all the other hospitals all over the world are not in the NHS so no problem, and we should be looking for the best treatments for the nation at the best value for the investment, no hangers on, no spivs, and a staff committed to the best they can be.
 And if people didn't want to work there,  they would have to put their notice in, apparently they are leaving in droves now so what would be the difference.
  The answer to the nurse problem would be bring in two tier nursing like it used to be with in house progression if they choose to. and at least half the management side especially the top tiers of non medical staff.
  The present system is not fit for purpose, the present staffing is not fit for purpose, the present management are certainly unfit for purpose and the whole structure is a money spider for the pharma industry, and with the amounts of money involved the corruption in the Covid period that came to the surface was probably just the tip of the ice berg.

I guess that's a no then, you're full of shit selby

[selby]

  Well they are working flat out in Gaza 24 hours Syd, porobably harder through the night and in the Ukraine and Syria. Answer a question I asked you Syd, you might think I am full of s**t as you put it Syd, while I can hear the empty  tin can rattling with a couple of pebbles in the empty head.
 Your hooked again Syd throwing language insults like that about again buddy.
  Now for once in your little world answer the questions I asked you like I answered yours, even though it hooked you and rattled your cage by the looks of it, and no repeat of your bad language please

[SydneyRover]

  Well they are working flat out in Gaza 24 hours Syd, porobably harder through the night and in the Ukraine and Syria. Answer a question I asked you Syd, you might think I am full of s**t as you put it Syd, while I can here the empty  tin can rattling with a couple of pebbles in the empty head.
 Your hooked again Syd throwing language insults like that about again buddy.
  Now for once in your little world answer the questions I asked you like I answered yours, even though it hooked you and rattled your cage by the looks of it, and no repeat of your bad language please

it's not an insult in your case selby

[selby]

  Well Syd that has answered one Question, you must have been dragged up from the gutter, poses another one though, what has Australia done to deserve the likes of you.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Reform is not just the stereotype of gammon voters often portayed. I saw an interesting interview including a few young voters, and some 17 year olds. They'd said they were for Reform and its popularity amngst their peers was mostly due to the social media publicity including TikTok they see. Lots of other youngsters talking up reform and so the herd mentality of youth is going with that.

[selby]

  A political analyst on the radio said that on the radio this evening  BRR, said it was eating into the lead of the stereotype educated idiots and just idiots often portrayed of the other parties like Labour and the Tories.