Doncaster Rovers' \"fans\" World Cup disgrace

[Gills_fan]

Hello Rovers’ fans

I posted this message on another Donny Rovers' forum, but was informed that that forum isn't widely used.  Anyway.....

I have just returned from the World Cup having seen England’s pathetic demise and have a few issues to point out regarding a group of Doncaster Rovers supporters, who have brought shame on your club and country. I am a Gillingham fan, by the way, so have no gripes and nothing but admiration for the way you have risen up the leagues in recent years, as we did ourselves about 10 or so years ago.

The issue in question occurred at the England v Algeria game and involved a group of middle-aged Rovers fans, who had a large “Doncaster Rovers” George Cross flag. We were sitting behind the goal in the back row of the lower tier. The above flag was draped down and hanging over the lower tier, partially obscuring our view when seated and completely obscuring our view when any action occurred and we were forced to stand up. We asked the stewards to move the flag up a few feet, so that we could see the action, which happened. In the 2nd half, we noticed the flag had been draped back down again, so we asked the stewards again, to pull the flag up a couple of feet, which they did.

After about an hour of the game, we were confronted by a chap, probably in his late 50s or 60s, complaining that we asked for the flag to be moved stating that he had taken the flag all around the world etc etc. In short, we just told him that we were more concerned with being able to watch the match than his flag. He banged on for about five minutes (rather than watching the match), before disappearing after we told him that we were more interested in supporting England than having a pointless and childish argument with him.

We thought that was the end of the incident, until at the end of the match, when the same chap and his friend (about the same age) came down and his friend decided to throw two punches in my face and another one at my friend. Fortunately, the punches were powder puff and did not cause any damage, but that’s not the point really. To be honest, had it been in England, being 6ft 3, 15 stone and half their age, I would have defended myself and wiped the floor with both of them single handedly (I am no troublemaker, would never look for trouble at a match and this is the only time I have ever been involved in trouble at football myself). However, fortunately I had the commonsense to realise that a night in a cell in South Africa for battering a couple of geriatrics, probably wasn't the most appetising of thoughts and way to spend a holiday!

In short:

1) The fact that two such middle-aged/old men care so much about their flag rather than watching and supporting their country is childish.

2) They are completely selfish as they value their stupid flag above fellow England fans being able to see the game.

3) Despite stating that they have taken their flag all around the world, they are clearly not that interested in watching England, as prefer to have a pointless argument rather than watch the match.

4) They are disgraceful and pathetic for throwing punches at fellow England fans, just for asking that their flag be moved up a couple of feet, so people are able to see the game. I would also point out that the punches were thrown from behind us, unannounced as we were watching the players leave the pitch.

5) I suspect they are also gutless, in they knew that a 30 year old 6ft 3, 15 stone, lad like me, was not going to throw a punch back at a couple of OAPs and risk the repercussions of the South African Police.

Anyway, I don’t like to be the bearer of bad publicity for your club, but if any one here knows these individuals or officials at Doncaster Rovers, I hope you let these fools know what a disgrace and how pathetic they really are, in addition to informing your club what sort of ambassadors represent you and fly your colours abroad.

I wish Doncaster Rovers no ill and genuinely wish you good luck for next season, especially against Millwall.

[jonrover]

Can anyone smell something?

[MrFrost]

Gills_fan wrote:

had it been in England, being 6ft 3, 15 stone and half their age, I would have defended myself and wiped the floor with both of them single handedly

Thats my favourite bit.  

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Someone point him to the statistics that demonstrate the lack of crowd problems at our games last season.

[Filo]

He banged on for about five minutes (rather than watching the match), before disappearing after we told him that we were more interested in supporting England than having a pointless and childish argument with him

But it`s not childish to come on a messageboard and bleat about your bad experience Eh?

why did you not report the alleged assault to the relevant authorities?

[MrFrost]

Another thing I found strange.
They were in the lower tier, the flag was draped from the upper tier. Surely these Rovers fans would have been in the upper tier also in order to drape the flag. Is it easy to switch between the upper and lower tier to have an argument?

[Filo]

The above flag was draped down and hanging over the lower tier, partially obscuring our view when seated and completely obscuring our view when any action occurred and we were forced to stand up

So, the flag was partially obscuring your view when you were sat down, would n`t standing up totally obscure your view, seeing as the flag was draped from above?

[Matty]

Cant see why anyone would make this kind of thing up and it is only a minority of Rovers fans who act like this and I mean a very small minority as our record last year was exceptional with only 5 ejections and 2 arrests all season. The Police seem to think we are a well behaved bunch. See linky http://www.doncasterroversfc.co.uk/page/News/0,,10329~2076241,00.html

[Gills_fan]

My intention wasn’t to criticise your club and I am not saying you have a hooligan problem.  Maybe I am a bit long winded, but all I am objecting to is being punched in the face for asking for a flag to be moved about a foot, so that I can see an England match.  I thought you guys may be interested, given that these people were flying the colours of your team – obviously I was wrong.  I can’t see why it is childish to bring this to your attention?!?!

As for the comment about pointing it out to the authorities – a so-called Policeman, saw the whole incident and when someone (not us) in our row directed him to the incident, he disappeared (this was not surprising as I went to 8 games out there and the Police/stewards wanted nothing other than an easy time, ignoring people smoking in their seats, standing in the gangways – who knows what would have happened, if things properly kicked off).

“Another thing I found strange.
They were in the lower tier, the flag was draped from the upper tier. Surely these Rovers fans would have been in the upper tier also in order to drape the flag. Is it easy to switch between the upper and lower tier to have an argument?”

This is not strange, you can pretty much walk where you like in the stadia out there, such is the poor security as demonstrated by the England fan walking in to the England dressing room at the same match and we ended up in the Media Centre at Soccercity after taking a wrong turn at Brazil v Ivory Coast.  As I say, the fact that they decided to change tiers mid-match to have an argument about their flag, just shows how much they were interested in the game!

“So, the flag was partially obscuring your view when you were sat down, would n`t standing up totally obscure your view, seeing as the flag was draped from above?” – That’s what I am saying – i.e. when we had to stand up (as every one else in front of us did), we couldn’t see a thing.

Not sure that I deserve ridiculing, doubting (why would I bother making it up?) or piss taking for being punched in the face for no reason by one of your fans and merely bringing this to your attention.

[MrFrost]

How did these Rovers fans know it was you who had complained to the stewards about the flag? Surely they must have been in ear shot at the time of the complaint? And if they were, why wait an hour to complain to you about it.

[AbsolutDRFC]

Would you care to describe the two \"geriatrics\" please?
Short/tall, hair colour?.....

[Gills_fan]

One was a short, fairly stocky chap with grey hair; his friend (who was the one who threw the punches) was taller, thinner, with darker hair.  \"Geriatrics\" may be a bit OTT as they were approx late 50s/early 60s, but clearly too old to be getting upset about their flag being moved and punching people in the face (or so you would have thought).

[silent majority]

Hmmm, what absolute rubbish.

Take a look at this picture taken inside the stadium;

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/ingerlandfan/SouthAfrica#

What you will see is the back row of the stand the guy was in and how low the flags need to be to obscure his vision. It must have been one hell of a Donny flag to have done that and I don't recall seeing it. What tosh!

[Matty]

silent_majority wrote:

Hmmm, what absolute rubbish.

Take a look at this picture taken inside the stadium;

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/ingerlandfan/SouthAfrica#

What you will see is the back row of the stand the guy was in and how low the flags need to be to obscure his vision. It must have been one hell of a Donny flag to have done that and I don't recall seeing it. What tosh!

If you look the Leicester flag on the far left is folded in half. That should put the cat amongst the pigeons  

[scotlandsbest]

look at the fifth flag along is that theres on the pic ? if it is its not obscuring anything

[Gills_fan]

That picture shows only of about 1/4 of the stadium and looks to be along the side of the pitch - we were behind the goal.  As is pointed out, there is a Leicester flag there that would definitely have obscured the view of those below, were it not folded up - hopefully, the Leicester fans didn't see the need to go down and punch the people below who probably asked for it to be raised so that they could see.

I'm not sure why a lot of you seem to think I would make the whole thing up - what would be the point in that?  As I say, I am not intending to criticise your club, just a couple of idiots, so there really is no need to get defensive.

[Filo]

There`s no need to come on here just because you`ve had a clip round the ear from someone twice your age, get over it yer gret southern jessie!    

[Chris]

[NigelJ]

Gills_fan wrote:

I'm not sure why a lot of you seem to think I would make the whole thing up - what would be the point in that?  As I say, I am not intending to criticise your club, just a couple of idiots, so there really is no need to get defensive.

I fully agree with that statement. There are plenty of childish posters on this forum who really ought to put their brains into gear before posting stupid things. I cannot verify what you are claiming, and I think I can safely say that 99.9% of the posters on this subject can't either - so why do they feel the need to refute your allegations when they have absoluely no knowledge of what happened?

I can't say I'm happy that these allegations have been made, far from it. Anything which may harm the reputation of DRFC has to be a bad thing.

Also, opinions shouldn't be swayed by a photo which seems largely irrelevant, as it doesn't offer any evidence of the 'offending' DRFC flag - just the fact that a flag could hang down far enough to obstruct someones view.

So, apologies to Gills_fan for the infantile initial remarks made to his post.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

All in all I fail to see the point in his postings apart from trying to bad mouth the club and supporters.  If he had a problem he should have taken it up with those out there instead of posting it on a forum that they 99% don't have anything to do with.

[Drover]

Your the one with the bee in your bonnet,Like Filo says Get over it,not a nice experience but it happens once in a while,also the fans you talk of cannot say their side of the story,they will have a different version of events im sure that may make you out of order too,Has you wrote \"In short, we just told him that we were more concerned with being able to watch the match than his flag\",IN SHORT? Doe's that mean you omitted the parts where you being 6'3 and 15st and would wipe the floor with both of them in England and you actually said some Big mouth comments to them?.why keep coming on here bleating about it?Go and discuss it with other Gills fans on your own Forums,if you are a Gills fan?Infact I got sneaky feeling you are not even an England fan nevermind a Gills fan.Welsh possibly?

[NigelJ]

Rigoglioso wrote:

I think the reason why a lot of people have reacted in the way that they have is because a fan has come on here (a site that is effectively Rovers territory) and made allegations that none of us want to hear, so the easiest way to dismiss the allegations is to belittle/discredit them.

Whether they are true/untrue allegations is a different matter.

So that makes it alright to be offensive then? I really despair that basic intelligence has been overtaken by this kind of attitude.

[bobjimwilly]

Rigoglioso wrote:

I think the reason why a lot of people have reacted in the way that they have is because a fan has come on here (a site that is effectively Rovers territory) and made allegations that none of us want to hear

Rigo, please don't take it upon yourself to represent all of us. How do you know none of us want to hear what Gills_fan has to say?

I really don't know why you are all getting so angry at this guy? Fair enough I don't really know what he expects us to do about it, but who are we to call him a liar, or suggest in anyway he deserved being punched by a Rovers \"supporter\"?

If this incident did take place in the manner described, I for one would not like to be associated with the supporter, as he sounds like a tosser  

[not on facebook]

taking a flag to a england away game was just as bad as taking
yer bint in tow

you had to be in ground earl doors as to get flag up,keep a close eye on during game,then lump it round withyou from pub to pub after the game

that was in my days of watching england 1980's to world cup in germany

would not take a flag again after poznan,poland in mid 1980's

never took a bird to a england game but have seen blokes that did and it looked the same stress

[Drover]

NigelJ wrote:

Gills_fan wrote:

I'm not sure why a lot of you seem to think I would make the whole thing up - what would be the point in that?  As I say, I am not intending to criticise your club, just a couple of idiots, so there really is no need to get defensive.

I fully agree with that statement. There are plenty of childish posters on this forum who really ought to put their brains into gear before posting stupid things. I cannot verify what you are claiming, and I think I can safely say that 99.9% of the posters on this subject can't either - so why do they feel the need to refute your allegations when they have absoluely no knowledge of what happened?

I can't say I'm happy that these allegations have been made, far from it. Anything which may harm the reputation of DRFC has to be a bad thing.

Also, opinions shouldn't be swayed by a photo which seems largely irrelevant, as it doesn't offer any evidence of the 'offending' DRFC flag - just the fact that a flag could hang down far enough to obstruct someones view.

So, apologies to Gills_fan for the infantile initial remarks made to his post.

So you take a total strangers word and his side of the story as gospel without the Accused fans concerned able to tell their side of the story?Even in a court of law the defence have their say before the jury making their decision whether guilty or not.I am not saying its not true but I have learnt alot of people twist stories to make them look totally innocent while accussing someone else.

[Rovers Return]

Having been in similar siuations on many an occasion I can see how this situation may develop. One thing that you have to tread carefully with is messing with the flag of St George. It raises emotions especially by ignorant Yanks who don't actually realise what it is.
I would guess that things were said by both parties and emotions ran high. Having said that I would not condone the guys who slapped you but neither would I protract the incident by posting it on a irrelevant website in the hope of sympathy. People get slapped all the time for various futile arguments. Put it down to experience and don't hold the rest of Doncaster Rovers to blame for the incident.

[NigelJ]

Drover wrote:

NigelJ wrote:

Gills_fan wrote:

I'm not sure why a lot of you seem to think I would make the whole thing up - what would be the point in that?  As I say, I am not intending to criticise your club, just a couple of idiots, so there really is no need to get defensive.

I fully agree with that statement. There are plenty of childish posters on this forum who really ought to put their brains into gear before posting stupid things. I cannot verify what you are claiming, and I think I can safely say that 99.9% of the posters on this subject can't either - so why do they feel the need to refute your allegations when they have absoluely no knowledge of what happened?

I can't say I'm happy that these allegations have been made, far from it. Anything which may harm the reputation of DRFC has to be a bad thing.

Also, opinions shouldn't be swayed by a photo which seems largely irrelevant, as it doesn't offer any evidence of the 'offending' DRFC flag - just the fact that a flag could hang down far enough to obstruct someones view.

So, apologies to Gills_fan for the infantile initial remarks made to his post.

So you take a total strangers word and his side of the story as gospel without the Accused fans concerned able to tell their side of the story?Even in a court of law the defence have their say before the jury making their decision whether guilty or not.I am not saying its not true but I have learnt alot of people twist stories to make them look totally innocent while accussing someone else.

I suggest you read my post again, as you have clearly ignored the bit I have highlighted above. My point was, we DON'T KNOW what happened, so posters should NOT be refuting something they DON'T KNOW about.  :angry:

[silent majority]

NigelJ wrote:

Gills_fan wrote:

I'm not sure why a lot of you seem to think I would make the whole thing up - what would be the point in that?  As I say, I am not intending to criticise your club, just a couple of idiots, so there really is no need to get defensive.

I fully agree with that statement. There are plenty of childish posters on this forum who really ought to put their brains into gear before posting stupid things. I cannot verify what you are claiming, and I think I can safely say that 99.9% of the posters on this subject can't either - so why do they feel the need to refute your allegations when they have absoluely no knowledge of what happened?

I can't say I'm happy that these allegations have been made, far from it. Anything which may harm the reputation of DRFC has to be a bad thing.

Also, opinions shouldn't be swayed by a photo which seems largely irrelevant, as it doesn't offer any evidence of the 'offending' DRFC flag - just the fact that a flag could hang down far enough to obstruct someones view.

So, apologies to Gills_fan for the infantile initial remarks made to his post.

Nigel,

You miss some very important points I made by posting that photo. Firstly I was in the stadium and stood in a similar position to the complainant. Secondly it would have to be a very, very large flag to obscure the vision of somebody on the tier below. Thirdly, I have never in all my years following England ever seen a flag from Doncaster that big, which begs the question if it was a Doncaster flag. Fourtjly, my flag and Mark's from Barnby Dun were on display which made me wonder if he was complaining about us. And finally, if it was obscuring his vision why didn't he move? There were plenty of other places to view that game.

My conclusion is that it wasn't a Doncaster Rovers flag(the obvious answer)and that this complainant isn't an England fan but a confused Algerian.

[Drover]

NigelJ wrote:

Drover wrote:

NigelJ wrote:

Gills_fan wrote:

I'm not sure why a lot of you seem to think I would make the whole thing up - what would be the point in that?  As I say, I am not intending to criticise your club, just a couple of idiots, so there really is no need to get defensive.

I fully agree with that statement. There are plenty of childish posters on this forum who really ought to put their brains into gear before posting stupid things. I cannot verify what you are claiming, and I think I can safely say that 99.9% of the posters on this subject can't either - so why do they feel the need to refute your allegations when they have absoluely no knowledge of what happened?

I can't say I'm happy that these allegations have been made, far from it. Anything which may harm the reputation of DRFC has to be a bad thing.

Also, opinions shouldn't be swayed by a photo which seems largely irrelevant, as it doesn't offer any evidence of the 'offending' DRFC flag - just the fact that a flag could hang down far enough to obstruct someones view.

So, apologies to Gills_fan for the infantile initial remarks made to his post.

So you take a total strangers word and his side of the story as gospel without the Accused fans concerned able to tell their side of the story?Even in a court of law the defence have their say before the jury making their decision whether guilty or not.I am not saying its not true but I have learnt alot of people twist stories to make them look totally innocent while accussing someone else.

I suggest you read my post again, as you have clearly ignored the bit I have highlighted above. My point was, we DON'T KNOW what happened, so posters should NOT be refuting something they DON'T KNOW about.  :angry:

No I have not NigelJ,If what is said is NOT known to be FACT and the person saying it is not even KNOWN to us,We have every right to question if he is genuine and I will say it again,I will continue to take what he says with a pinch of salt unless any hard evidence is shown or the fans accussed are able to defend themselfs and tell us their side of the story?Its people listening to stories in pubs that spread Rumours and thats exactly what he is saying at the moment \"A RUMOUR\".

[Drover]

Rovers Return wrote:

Having been in similar siuations on many an occasion I can see how this situation may develop. One thing that you have to tread carefully with is messing with the flag of St George. It raises emotions especially by ignorant Yanks who don't actually realise what it is.
I would guess that things were said by both parties and emotions ran high. Having said that I would not condone the guys who slapped you but neither would I protract the incident by posting it on a irrelevant website in the hope of sympathy. People get slapped all the time for various futile arguments. Put it down to experience and don't hold the rest of Doncaster Rovers to blame for the incident.

Exactly